Meeting The Yoda of Data: Quantified Planet's Maja Brisvall

Maja Brisvall

Maja Brisvall is the co-founder of Quantified Planet, a non-profit organization that collects, analyzes and visualizes data to advance the United Nation's Global Goals. She's is also a person who hit Silicon Valley at a time in the 90's when history was truly made – meeting people like Tim Berners Lees (the creator of the world wide web!!!), Ray Kurzweil, and a bunch of other historical people. This episode contains a ton of great information on the collection and use of data, but also about entrepreneurship in general and the history of the internet. Tune in!

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Transcript

Note: This is an auto-generated transcript that will butcher words and names sometimes (Our favorite is when our guest Johannes Cullberg became “Your Hummus Cool Bye”). The format is not optimized for reading, but for searching for specific segments. Hence the timestamps etc. Happy searching!

00:03

Walter who invented the World Wide Web

00:07

that was Tim berners-lee one of my

00:10

greatest childhood heroes and who is

00:14

Maya Brisvall well

00:16

Maja Brisvall is a person that has met

00:18

Tim berners-lee that's all I need to

00:20

know that's what that's all I need to

00:23

know to bring it honest yes so Maya is

00:25

this super cool person that has been

00:27

around in the tech field since the

00:31

internet really started or what we call

00:33

the Internet today not the 60s thingy

00:36

thingy but the thing that started around

00:38

93 to 95 or whenever it was and she is

00:44

like the goddess of data well she's like

00:47

the Yoda of data she's she has she's in

00:50

she's in contact with the force here and

00:54

she's also started a nonprofit

00:56

organization called quantified planet to

01:00

which you can donate your data and they

01:02

collect this data and they analyze it

01:04

and they use it to help advance the UN

01:07

17 sustainability goals and I think this

01:10

episode we talked about so many things

01:13

and it's super interesting and I think

01:15

if you want to learn how to think about

01:18

your data and how to make your business

01:21

part of making the world better you need

01:24

to listen to this episode yes for sure

01:27

and it's one of these episodes where

01:30

it's not like super clear like what is

01:33

the exact topic here because we kind of

01:34

wander around the internet related and

01:37

data related topics in a way that I

01:39

think is just pure beauty yeah and I

01:43

think is absolutely one of the best

01:45

episodes we've ever made

01:47

yes and we love her so tune in stick

01:51

around and listen to Maya Bristol

01:55

[Music]

02:00

[Applause]

02:00

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02:08

[Applause]

02:09

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02:18

how do you pronounce your name in

02:20

English good question myobrace well Maya

02:23

Bristol yeah cool good so that's our

02:26

lower braced wall this is always this is

02:30

we're asking three times because this is

02:32

always our biggest problem really yeah

02:34

we always I don't know why oh it's just

02:37

that Scandinavian name sounds funny

02:39

English some way up my Bruce well so

02:43

Maya what is your story who are you

02:46

well it's a question by now by every

02:50

year you once you get older you know

02:52

start with figure out who you are um

02:54

well I'm basically an entrepreneur and

02:57

whatever I end up by end up starting

02:59

companies or organizations to help the

03:03

world and that's my mission and I've

03:06

been doing that ever since I sort of hit

03:09

university and went on to a road trip to

03:12

the u.s. in 95

03:13

discovering internet and hang out with

03:16

some of the digital artists of our time

03:18

and that changed my way of thinking

03:20

radically so that's why I've been

03:22

working in tech and I working with my

03:25

passion and mission to to improve Canada

03:28

so who are some of these people that you

03:29

met that was in the 90s bit we were like

03:32

hanging out we are young in when he was

03:34

perfect in his office with eight

03:35

employees at the time and Nicholas

03:38

Negroponte at the time at MIT he will of

03:40

course the founder of the web Tim

03:42

berners-lee and and but also amazing

03:45

people all over the US as the time but

03:48

we also met some amazing people of

03:50

course in our country and the Nordics so

03:52

um most of them I think where we are

03:55

today is this very exciting we have a

03:57

lot of experienced people in the world

03:59

who worked very heavily in Tekken and

04:00

artificial intelligence very skilled and

04:05

one of the challenges for all of these

04:07

passionate people and visionaries is

04:09

obviously to use their skills and

04:11

talents right now and in a combined

04:13

mission um to make it livable for for

04:17

Humanity for for a few more years before

04:20

we all get drowned yeah or hit by a

04:22

storm as they say it's not earth

04:25

that has a problem it's us yeah it's

04:28

it's earth would be around that's not

04:30

really the question and there's just a

04:32

question which kind of specious will be

04:33

there

04:33

I remember seeing Tim berners-lee at

04:36

South by Southwest on stage but a couple

04:40

of years ago and I was so starstruck

04:43

I'm an engineer I grew up with computers

04:45

and BBS's and all that stuff so to me

04:49

that was like meeting Jesus yeah but do

04:52

you know him well we met him at the time

04:55

in 95 and I can't say I know him but I

04:57

actually was down at CERN a few years

05:00

when I was skiing and just passed by and

05:02

checked out the original computer in the

05:05

in the museum and I think obviously Tim

05:07

man and siren and and a lot of the early

05:10

people out there working on on building

05:12

the web did it from a humanity

05:15

perspective and I think the article we

05:18

saw last week for in New York Times on

05:19

on Facebook and the power and how it's

05:23

it's it's him societies in abilities to

05:28

regulate that kind of social media giant

05:31

is is it's both frightening but it's

05:36

also a fact of our time that we have

05:38

institutions that cannot control the

05:41

exponential growth of technology yeah we

05:43

had a discussion last week with with a

05:46

China expert and we are actually that's

05:50

we're releasing that today but anyway he

05:52

it's already released yes and and we

05:55

were talking about how we can you know

05:57

discuss democracy in China and all that

06:00

but it's it's in in the West we have

06:03

very powerful institutions that are not

06:06

controlled by voting at all like

06:08

Facebook and Google and all those

06:10

institutions so it's a kind of a new

06:11

world which is the interesting I think

06:14

yeah it's it's it's interesting but in a

06:17

way it isn't it's sort of new but it's

06:20

out of hand right now and that's what I

06:22

think is is um I mean some of the great

06:25

people at singularity University is

06:27

teaching people of course on rayon and

06:30

and the guys they're obviously in Peter

06:32

is is on the exponential growth of

06:34

technology and that's that as an

06:36

opportunity to fix Peter Diamandis yeah

06:38

Peter Diamandis

06:39

I'm sorry and he and I what I think is

06:42

that the we still have this in the tech

06:46

sector we still have this ignorant of

06:49

understanding the relationship between

06:51

nature and people right and that's where

06:54

people have still it Wes I said 2019 had

06:58

off with solution that don't really

07:00

solve any problems that needs that a

07:02

critical for survival so before we go

07:05

into that can you share a little bit

07:07

about your early career and your what

07:11

you did before before this were you

07:13

landed by a spaceship on earth but the

07:24

reason that no well ever since I grew up

07:27

in a small town Calmare on the east

07:29

coast west coast East Coast sorry I grew

07:32

up in calamari on the East Coast

07:33

I was with Leedom and I very early on

07:37

there when I went to university at

07:39

learned University I was able to make

07:40

one of the earliest IT conferences in

07:42

Sweden we did it 1994 and we had the

07:45

questions of who takes responsibility

07:47

for IT in the future and that was very

07:50

visionary at the time we thought you

07:52

know but I think it's still a very

07:54

relevant question and 95 then learning

07:57

so much about new technology when I was

07:59

a student and I was also at the time

08:01

running the academic society inland as

08:04

an ombudsman and which was very a very

08:06

good school very good crash course for

08:09

life and then I was a few friends of

08:11

mine we took off on a road trip to the

08:12

US because we were like okay what uh

08:14

what is this internet thing let's figure

08:16

it out so we went like four women in the

08:19

car and we just had this best summer

08:20

ever and we were just I think this is

08:23

perhaps one of the most fundamental

08:25

things for my life where I I learned we

08:28

were thinking in 1995 how are we going

08:31

to cross America and how we're going to

08:34

get a car and then we figured out ah

08:36

let's get it sponsored and then we sort

08:39

of got sunglasses from diesel and food

08:41

from McDonald's and we got a moba Tex

08:45

connection from Ericsson

08:47

we had a laptop from Apple so we could

08:49

write a online diary in identify for my

08:52

car

08:52

this is very and we published this at

08:56

Matias also set a central time he's my

08:59

old boss so we published that like every

09:03

day and we sent over the email listen

09:04

bam and the photos of course from our

09:06

crazy meetings we had with some of the

09:08

most amazing pictures of the time but

09:11

Matias was actually bit disappointed

09:13

because he thought we didn't party

09:15

enough but it was it was a great journey

09:22

and after that I mean we went from the

09:25

east coast to San Francisco up to

09:27

Seattle and so Microsoft and obviously

09:29

we mentioned Tim berners-lee I saw him

09:31

in in Cambridge pass Dunnan and they

09:34

mighty Media Lab was obviously a very

09:36

hot place in 1995 and still yes I must

09:39

say thanks to yo e ito he runs it today

09:42

and and we also went down to we hadn't

09:45

we went to the skyscrapers of MTV in New

09:48

York at the time and and talked about

09:50

the future of the music industry

09:52

obviously part of that future is it over

09:55

here at the time in Sweden

09:57

thanks to Spotify awesome so you see do

10:00

you know all these all might like

10:01

childhood heroes like Ray Kurzweil and

10:03

the yeah oh wow now I'm so starstruck

10:09

but yeah yeah so I'm the one that have

10:14

to you'll take over hey I'll take over

10:16

while I wipe the sweat off my forehead

10:17

yeah because I'm slightly younger than

10:19

you so I I don't know most of the people

10:23

that you guys are talking about look at

10:26

the books around ya you know so and then

10:30

what happened yeah what happened that

10:32

good question

10:33

so back in Sweden I figured out with all

10:37

these knowledge at the time of how

10:38

internet and technology was going to

10:40

transform our world we did a trip in

10:44

Sweden trying to figure out our own

10:45

country that's the question you have

10:46

mentioned earlier if tech is so powerful

10:49

and such an instrumental for

10:51

entrepreneurs and growth what is Sweden

10:54

about and that was at the time when we

10:56

met the founders of spray and I could

10:58

Media Lab and these guys were the

11:00

Internet boom itself

11:01

but we took off two of us my friend

11:04

Marla Mimi we went back and started the

11:07

company in San Francisco at the time we

11:08

did the guys thinkin and I lived there

11:11

for a few years and got to know the

11:13

scene in M and the founders of the most

11:15

critical technologies published the

11:17

founders who built the iPhone and build

11:20

the Android system and that helped us

11:22

understand how the world works

11:24

how Silicon Valley works and how and

11:28

what have small community it is but what

11:31

an incredibly impact it has on the world

11:33

so and after that I got really in the

11:36

end of 90s I got bit exhausted with this

11:39

can I ask a follow-up question

11:41

how does it work how it does it work it

11:44

works the way the way that Silicon

11:47

Valley now is exported its model all

11:49

over the world it works in a way which

11:51

is very simple and where money can be

11:53

made money is attracted to independent

11:57

of and the potential of a return on

11:59

investment and where we thought think

12:03

will expand much more quickly on on if

12:05

we look at impact investment beginning

12:07

of 2000 and we still don't see impact

12:10

investment going the way it should have

12:13

done partly for two reasons one just

12:15

really impact investors don't understand

12:17

technology and and don't do it well

12:19

enough and the second one so they can't

12:22

ripe the benefits from technology and

12:23

dustman connected to it and the other

12:25

part is obviously the deal flow on

12:27

impact entrepreneurs people who are want

12:30

to change the world work with social

12:31

issues are not tech driven either in

12:33

general we have a few exceptions but and

12:36

not at all at the rate that we where we

12:38

should be today we're but we need to get

12:40

there because as we've talked about

12:42

before in the podcasts that if you

12:45

really want to change big things you

12:47

know you want to invent an electric car

12:49

it's very hard to do that from a non

12:51

profit you know platform because you

12:55

have no economical upside to outweigh

12:58

the risk so you can do smaller project

13:02

was too big and doing the really big

13:03

expensive risky ones needs to be a Tesla

13:06

or something like that absolutely and I

13:08

think that's where it's really cool

13:10

where we are today because now is like

13:12

everyone is more like okay energy it's

13:15

not going to be

13:15

right solo is that the price comes down

13:18

battery is happening question is if will

13:21

we have the right metal so do we have to

13:23

mine them in space right so and then we

13:26

have the but then we have this massive

13:29

huge thing independent if we saw energy

13:32

we need to stop obviously on co2 that is

13:34

snow no question about that but then we

13:36

have this huge other ash issue so how

13:39

did we train humanity how did you train

13:41

us who are we today and what are we what

13:44

are we doing that's a big question you

13:48

know how do we live our lives and what

13:50

what what do we actually shop and what

13:52

do we prioritize how do we get here and

13:54

that I think is of course a massive

13:56

question but it's like who you know so

13:59

what what are the worst things that

14:02

humans do want to scale in terms of how

14:04

we live being very ignorant okay tell me

14:07

more so I wish more people have that

14:14

reaction well I think it comes back to

14:19

basics and that's where I'm very

14:22

fascinating now by having worked so much

14:24

with turbine development smart cities

14:26

that was done in Barcelona and you can

14:28

see all the tech companies now we see

14:30

Siemens Bosch anyone who is big in tech

14:34

wants to do the smart city and it's no

14:36

longer a smart city it's an intelligent

14:38

city and we try to use the intelligence

14:41

to make cities more efficient how they

14:43

run and managed so all the big platforms

14:45

and big corporations have so onto that

14:49

improve you know potholes improve

14:53

malfunctions of urban but that is not

14:56

really so that's one thing that's being

14:59

fixed the the general efficiency but

15:01

what we need to create is the feedback

15:04

loop between citizens and and that comes

15:07

bring us to where are we having to be in

15:10

Bravo

15:10

oh you do you think about like electric

15:13

shock stand or some kind of I think it's

15:20

a more like be in nature right yeah so

15:23

what happens to you if you live in a

15:26

city and you go into a nice Park right

15:28

you start to relax

15:29

finally gonna get some oxygen or ah you

15:32

know don't count here so much not said

15:34

Lockett Oh what happens to me what

15:36

happens to me I get very sort of you

15:37

know very relaxed you know I went with a

15:41

relaxed mind you become happy right and

15:43

then you start oh you know I feel good

15:46

about yourself and and and used and when

15:48

you start to feel good you can start to

15:51

get connected to what's a meaningful

15:53

what matters right and then you start be

15:55

able to receive and think uh-huh you

15:57

know maybe I shouldn't eat more burgers

15:58

or you know maybe I shouldn't take the

16:01

car I maybe do I like my job does it is

16:04

it is it fulfilling for me does it help

16:05

me it doesn't help the planet

16:07

does it help humanity I think the root

16:09

for us to check out of our existing sort

16:14

of paradigm system even if we are very

16:17

digital and very visionary and we may

16:19

have all the gadgets we need and we

16:22

really try to use the car less and not

16:24

to fly to Thailand and and take the

16:26

train on our holidays and use bikes so

16:30

even if we're doing all those things

16:31

there is some things there at the time

16:33

now where we are we we have to be much

16:35

more knowledgeable out about nature and

16:38

how to make food for thought and you are

16:42

working on a project now that is at

16:46

least providing us with data of the

16:48

state of the planet in different ways

16:50

yeah we've been working quantified

16:52

planet as an organization was founded a

16:54

few years ago and we've been making the

16:57

argument that some of the complexity in

17:00

urban life s needs to be connected to

17:03

data solution intelligence so it's not

17:06

an artificial intelligence its

17:07

intelligence of how people and planet

17:09

works so one of the products we were

17:11

working on now is planet 15 which is

17:14

connected to the U and the global coal

17:16

15 life on land and that is how we

17:18

manage our ecosystems and biodiversity

17:20

you may have seen in the press that we

17:23

have fortunately the past few months

17:25

it's been massive writings about it and

17:29

the UN report lost Monday as well on our

17:32

the rate of extinction of species right

17:34

so what can we do and that's what we're

17:38

trying to create more our knowledge

17:40

project around this again if I'd

17:41

experienced where you

17:42

done scam florists and learning about

17:44

your environment so that's one of the

17:48

privates we're working on there's still

17:50

no electrical shocks there's so much

17:53

into the stick we're talking about

17:55

carrot here I like them the combination

17:59

of the carrot and the stick

18:01

yeah maybe the stick isn't the

18:03

electrical truck maybe it's more like I

18:05

really have the rain yeah that's the

18:09

problem with climate change in the

18:11

Nordics that it feels like a carrot but

18:13

it's not long-term you know it feels

18:16

like it's getting warmer it's a good

18:17

thing for us weeds but yeah it's you

18:20

know it's it's not a good question if

18:22

it's I mean we have a very cold spring

18:24

right now for example yeah so it's both

18:26

gets warmer and but it's get it's

18:28

unpredictable yeah I did read an article

18:30

actually about some parts of the world

18:33

if you get far north enough yeah climate

18:37

change is a short term positive short

18:40

term because you get warmer weather you

18:41

get like more you know better tourism

18:45

that kind of thing and that that's

18:47

that's something that is a problem like

18:50

communicatively a problem have you heard

18:53

about that or not experience it our

19:00

office at Castel listen back some we had

19:02

last summer we had an exhibition called

19:05

the planetary in the city and we have

19:07

that tourists from all over the world

19:08

who came and visited us and during the

19:10

hot summer and they were obviously

19:12

coming in to staggering into her

19:14

exhibition space which is when all old

19:16

forests you would think it would be cold

19:18

but obviously not because it's been warm

19:20

for too long so it was it was hot and

19:23

they nice hot or too hot too hot because

19:27

the barely had energy to think right but

19:31

they've got water from us right so they

19:32

came out like hot water and then so I

19:35

think this sort of it's it's a challenge

19:38

as you say how you communicated that is

19:39

also you know what if you don't have

19:41

building we will be in surprising Sweden

19:43

with our buildings right with so much

19:45

insulation but we have no and it takes

19:50

energy to round those as well yeah yeah

19:51

and so quantified planet

19:55

how does it work how's it work it's a

19:57

platform you can donate your data you

20:00

can connect it to our API and we work

20:02

with companies and organization and

20:05

different projects of how to opening up

20:07

data sense when we started out we

20:10

thought that real-time streaming data

20:11

would be critical it would be the new

20:13

fabric of creating a new fit the new

20:16

world and we knew that the sensor the

20:21

explosion and we know it will happen the

20:23

big explosion of sensor and data what we

20:25

don't see yet is that people who have

20:28

fortunately the AI hype came and all we

20:32

should be very helpful but it's still a

20:34

very sort of locked position because

20:35

people are mostly thinking and machine

20:37

learning on an efficiency level I'm not

20:39

thinking really of how can I create

20:40

something innovative out of data and if

20:42

you're going to create something

20:43

innovative and new you need new data

20:45

sets or a combination of data so where

20:47

does that mean for an ordinary listener

20:50

well basically it means that if you have

20:53

a company that has existing data sets

20:56

today you may have it if you are a

20:59

player fashion company you have a

21:01

limited real time data from the fields

21:03

of cotton for example from your

21:04

importation you may have raised time

21:07

data on the transportation today but it

21:09

may not be connected to the co2 levels

21:12

right because your distribution partner

21:14

may not have those data sets available

21:15

you may not have from Europe you sign a

21:18

lot of deals with them real estate

21:21

companies because you had a lot of shops

21:22

perhaps in retail locations but you

21:24

don't know there are quality of the

21:26

outside of the shops or at the quality

21:28

inside the shops right which depend on

21:30

the well being for so these examples of

21:32

data set snippets that will be available

21:35

in we don't know when but it's

21:37

exponentially we have we have satellite

21:40

technologies that will be able to show

21:44

in a fairly short period of time tell us

21:46

real-time quality data all over the

21:49

world right and that means that property

21:52

values or you know these it will change

21:55

dynamics rapidly in the real estate

21:57

market so if you're a company today you

22:01

may think machine learning artificial

22:04

intelligence it's connected to consumer

22:06

behavior to increase your sales which is

22:08

partly true

22:09

from a planetary perspective it's

22:11

actually earth sending signals to you

22:14

and giving you feedback on how you

22:16

should make your business more

22:17

sustainable and I think that is its it a

22:21

bit of a tricky part um because to learn

22:24

about data and understand intelligence

22:27

and start to think about the algorithm

22:30

and sort of the if you think of

22:31

algorithm some way of like admitting to

22:34

knit together data sets to something new

22:37

then you need to invest in both learning

22:40

about the data and investing in the data

22:42

collection and that obviously costs

22:44

money and it's hard if you're in it in a

22:46

staggering business around you collect

22:48

data and people donate data to through

22:51

your api's yeah can you also connect

22:53

your API to use your data please yeah

22:55

and you you you pay for that or how do

22:57

you have so far we have a few projects

23:01

where data has been donated for example

23:03

we have a buyer and Basinger in germany

23:06

and big corporations would be very very

23:09

forward-thinking in donating data on

23:11

biodiversity to us so we have worked

23:13

with scientists as well to trying to

23:15

understand datasets a baby meaningful to

23:17

them and how these datasets can can put

23:19

combined but agriculture obviously is on

23:22

top of this yeah very quickly yeah big

23:25

corporations today that are in there and

23:29

retail it's very very school squashed

23:31

square at the moment right so yeah yeah

23:34

I just thought of a squashed lemon

23:40

that's why I had that it's a great great

23:43

George very squashed particularly with

23:48

the trade we're hitting right now as

23:49

well alright so business won't be made

23:52

in the way it used to be so that's for

23:55

sure and we may not even need to shop

23:57

that many things any longer if we a

23:58

little bit more conscious about our own

24:00

behavior but what I'm thinking very much

24:03

about right now is that what is it how

24:05

did it be used to live and not just as

24:08

it is in the Stone Age and eating in

24:10

those kind of foods but it's been very

24:12

trendy but more like what skills do you

24:16

have to have if you live in a village

24:17

and there's project right now throws and

24:20

Darla on you know on

24:22

on how much do you need to grow yourself

24:25

just to say in yourself right as human

24:27

and then this comes to quite the

24:29

questions what living in a village what

24:32

are what are other services that will be

24:34

critical to read so I'm I'm getting very

24:37

excited about because the idea that not

24:39

just that everyone needs to move to the

24:41

villages but what happens if we move to

24:45

villages and the countryside because we

24:47

need real wild sort of in the

24:49

countryside or next to the wild and we

24:52

start to learn learn again how to live

24:54

right we can still have some electric

24:57

you know intelligence around it right

24:59

but if it's if the future city is not

25:03

only expanding the urban environment

25:05

it's actually building more livable and

25:09

re-educate us to live in villages so

25:12

there is the future of sustainable

25:15

cities is a network of villages that's

25:18

really interesting because if you look

25:19

at what happened we used to have a

25:21

blacksmith and we used to have a you

25:23

know whatever so many main trading

25:25

tables in the village and then the

25:28

Industrial Revolution came and we

25:29

centralized everything to one big plant

25:32

in Jen Jen you know right or something

25:35

you're China or whatever and we're

25:37

getting everything from that one plant

25:39

and now we're kind of rethinking that

25:41

again and coming back with 3d printers

25:44

and and distributing out like the

25:46

production capabilities again yeah so is

25:49

that that development is that what we're

25:52

seeing like a re how do you describe

25:57

that a redistribution of production

25:59

capacity and I mean you know it also

26:02

ties in of course to logistics because

26:04

if you have one central place where

26:07

everything you know where you go to buy

26:08

everything there will be a huge amount

26:11

of traffic to get there and it'll have

26:12

all these logistical problems and

26:14

environmental problems from all that and

26:16

now we're kind of seeing maybe move

26:18

towards more distributed systems again

26:20

and we can yeah you share religious

26:23

logistics for example and that kind of

26:25

thing do you think that's is that I

26:27

realized that this was a competent maybe

26:28

bit complex to explain but it's that

26:31

kind of what you see happening with

26:32

these values yes this is what I think is

26:35

super exciting

26:35

because one of the things if we go back

26:37

to say like how do why are we ignore

26:39

under why's it hard to change our

26:41

behaviors is that if we live in urban

26:43

it's it's so it's it's our universe

26:46

right we have a little logic of how we

26:48

operate as humans in an urban

26:49

environment but when we step out of that

26:52

and are in a village obviously we will

26:55

have more time because our costs go down

26:57

our living costs go down on

26:58

transportation costs go down we didn't

27:00

need to shop as much because we don't

27:01

want to need to go to court parties and

27:03

look to cool right

27:04

all right just like you know or looking

27:06

at the neighbors and whatever they got I

27:08

only need an interesting shirt because

27:09

we're gonna take selfies so need to look

27:11

good from the bottom up then we can have

27:13

one pair of pants all the time so I'm

27:15

starting a good pair of boots right now

27:24

I think that's why I'm I'm excited about

27:27

those things because if we look at the

27:29

data we collected in cities and what our

27:31

critical data says we have been focusing

27:33

on real-time data on air quality on UV

27:37

light right on on water amounts of

27:40

rainwater because that's obviously

27:42

critical and then also we be looking at

27:46

number how much you've been moving

27:49

around right number of steps you take in

27:51

your because it's gives an indication

27:53

for yourself hi how are you doing right

27:56

but then there is also other datasets

27:58

that come along and become more

28:02

important when we started so we have the

28:04

environmental datasets initially but

28:06

then becomes other parts which is more

28:08

like biodiversity how many flowers do

28:11

you see water grows and then well-being

28:14

are you happy or not right

28:16

and then comes your pulse if you're

28:17

wearing a a pulse watch right how

28:20

stressed are you doing it per your day

28:22

right

28:22

so I think the and and we can look at

28:24

these data sets and we can collect them

28:26

in an urban environment and in an

28:27

apartment but what if we do it in a

28:29

village right you can always be a stress

28:32

living in a village as well but I think

28:34

there's something very cool about this

28:36

and they're exciting to explore right

28:38

yeah because the connection between the

28:41

because the villages in the city as well

28:43

right so the village is the neighborhood

28:45

in the city and what we are

28:49

missing when we live in cities in urban

28:51

environments it's a neighborhood or we

28:52

choose actually a neighborhood belong to

28:54

something right so that this is sort of

28:58

it's it's connected but it's also very

29:01

important that the new as you were

29:03

saying before the new distributed

29:06

systems being designed at this point in

29:08

time for both for learning and for

29:12

logistics of distribution of food or our

29:15

goods enables us to live in a different

29:19

way

29:19

yeah we also see like the the urban

29:22

agriculture trend and all that I'm not

29:25

sure I can't say yet if that's gonna

29:27

work on scale or not but I guess it will

29:29

because we you know transporting food

29:31

from the countryside all the time may

29:33

not be the most efficient way if I can

29:35

grow you know in a skyscraper on the

29:38

wall of one maybe you're exactly and

29:41

this is said this is the winner of the

29:43

cafe or selling in price it was just

29:45

Sweden's most prestigious architecture

29:47

price for public buildings was handed to

29:49

an architect whose name I just forgot

29:52

but she is she made the argument in

29:55

Swedish architecture magazine that if we

29:59

rather than try to fix

30:00

think of how we can fix cities our life

30:03

in cities all the time if we move to the

30:05

countryside we get more time and we get

30:09

closer to the food right so and it costs

30:13

and reduce the cost of living so the she

30:15

won the prize on designing a new form of

30:17

public building for for the countryside

30:20

rather than solving big building a big

30:24

another big which castle impressed give

30:27

before to a big Airport so I think the

30:30

jury of the Casper silly impressed was

30:31

very courageous and forward-thinking in

30:33

their way of changing the notional or

30:35

what we need to to share it right yeah I

30:39

have a I have a I can I want to tie it

30:41

back back again to so you can get your

30:45

data out as an entrepreneur you can you

30:48

can access your data through the API and

30:50

have you seen any entrepreneurs doing

30:52

that yes to early yeah and the reason

30:54

for that is that but well we started it

30:57

in and we had a very fun conversation

30:59

with for example the CEO of singularity

31:01

Rob named he

31:02

saying to meet my you think you know you

31:05

don't know eventually what they

31:07

entrepreneurs we create out of this

31:09

right you don't know what the

31:10

combinations of data will be in the

31:12

future so and I think he was it was very

31:16

right this was a few beers back when we

31:18

discussed it what I think we

31:19

underestimated in the devel this the

31:23

world changes or everyday right so what

31:25

we didn't really figure out is that the

31:28

it's still very few entrepreneurs who

31:31

understands the problems that need to be

31:33

solved

31:34

yeah which is fine by the way I think

31:37

this is I think this is something that

31:39

is kind of unless they stay ignorant

31:43

yeah but it's fine I mean what what you

31:46

have to think about is that is hard to

31:48

when you talk about creativity yeah it's

31:50

hard to know what's the right idea now

31:53

and maybe you have a bad idea and that

31:55

will lead you to another bad idea that

31:56

will lead you to a good idea and or

31:58

another bad idea or another bad idea

32:00

that's just how creativity works that's

32:02

where you need to try stuff but what I

32:03

think you need to avoid is do to say for

32:08

certain that ideas are stupid or bad and

32:11

a great example of that I think is Steve

32:13

Ballmer when he the first time he's in

32:16

an interview and he talks about the

32:17

iPhone and I think he had to say that

32:19

yeah yeah but hard but yeah but but

32:22

rather he what he should have done is

32:24

that he should have said something about

32:25

us and in interesting design you know

32:28

something like that instead what he says

32:29

is this will never work for the business

32:32

crowd you know if you have it if you

32:34

have a phone without a keyboard it's a

32:36

very bad email machine I think you're

32:39

right about this and the reason why I'm

32:41

getting a little bit is two things one I

32:44

think I lived in Sweden for too long

32:45

because sometimes you get bit you know a

32:49

hammer down so you have just take

32:51

yourself out of here and come back but

32:54

the other part is which is very

32:56

interesting is that we have even if we

33:00

have a news report or what's going on so

33:02

I've been very I've been very fortunate

33:04

I've been working with some of the best

33:06

scientists in the world at Stockholm

33:07

resilience underground and and other

33:09

places around the world and science has

33:12

the evidence and has er had the

33:13

knowledge for a long period of time what

33:15

needs to be done

33:16

we don't need more data or evidence for

33:18

science viewing we need doing

33:20

so I created programs for entrepreneurs

33:23

to interface and learn about the latest

33:24

scientific knowledge and how to go about

33:26

and create solutions but um and people

33:31

are changing the way of thinking and I

33:32

think we can see Elon Musk is a great

33:34

example of someone who is like a really

33:36

running ahead in the world trying to do

33:38

this I see very little more than what

33:41

I've seen so far is very little in this

33:43

field in frier to it from a Swedish

33:45

perspective I still see a lot of

33:47

investment funds some people going about

33:49

funding projects that works in the

33:51

existing system but ideally should be

33:53

disrupted right and and that's obviously

33:56

how it works if you have a VC firm and

33:58

you raise some money you have a fund and

33:59

you need to show some cash right so you

34:01

have to deliver on your existing system

34:04

but lots of this stuff is it's not going

34:06

nowhere

34:06

it's the classic innovators dilemma yeah

34:08

you know how you living you get your

34:11

money from your existing products and

34:12

then you know you scary to just drop

34:15

that and disrupt yourself right so how

34:17

do you so why why do you think do you

34:19

think it's going to has changed now was

34:23

the most the question again do you do

34:25

you things in the entrepreneurs we have

34:29

today that are starting companies in

34:31

coming up with solutions that we had

34:32

like just like 10 years ago I see both

34:36

amazing entrepreneurs doing it and I see

34:39

old companies that should be doing it

34:41

that are stuck in the innovators dilemma

34:43

so I see both and I really think that

34:46

the a lot of those companies need to

34:49

break out of there and in order to do

34:51

that I think sometimes you need to

34:53

create a something like a skunkworks in

34:55

the old classic example but an

34:57

organization that can run freely and not

34:59

having to report you know on a

35:01

day-to-day basis their profits and

35:04

losses because you this you need to be

35:08

able to have a few bad ideas without

35:11

getting fired for them in order to get

35:13

to the good ones and I think that's just

35:15

you know there's this right now it's

35:17

really hot with this Elizabeth Holmes

35:20

story it's all is well there's a

35:22

documentary on Netflix there's a podcast

35:25

out about the thoroughness

35:28

crash and I talked about this before

35:32

Brian I'm kind of annoys me a little

35:34

it's a little bit disturbing because I

35:36

agree that that she did a lot of things

35:38

wrong and there's kind of a fraudulent

35:41

way of financing it but it's also

35:44

something that could have worked she

35:46

tried to to disrupt to disrupt something

35:49

big and and then she failed but I'm just

35:53

a little bit scared that when we create

35:56

examples out of those types people it

35:58

discourages people to try really

36:00

difficult things yeah I want I want to

36:02

add something to this because I think I

36:04

think you're right and I also think it's

36:07

really important that change it's

36:10

important to understand how the brain

36:12

works so we have two basic drives right

36:14

we have to drive away from our hell ie

36:18

away from pain and we also have the

36:21

drive towards pleasure and our heaven

36:26

and the drive and this Daniel Kahneman

36:28

II won the Nobel Prize of proving this

36:31

and which is I think common sense that

36:33

we are because our two million year old

36:36

brain we are more driven away from the

36:39

things that we don't want then to the

36:41

things that we do want and part of that

36:44

I think is showing the pain of not

36:49

changing so making sure that for example

36:53

if entrepreneurship and I think

36:55

politicians haven't have a really

36:57

important role here so if we want to

36:59

have more entrepreneurs that make a

37:02

positive change we also want to for

37:05

example change the way how we tax things

37:07

so if you're taxed in a different way if

37:10

you don't have a positive impact on the

37:12

world it's gonna start make people think

37:15

the second thing is human beings are

37:19

often driven by vanity and significance

37:24

in different ways and making sure and

37:27

part of this is what's what's in water

37:30

what this is about is creating making it

37:33

rock and roll to be an entrepreneur that

37:36

makes the world better and making that

37:39

like the new role model

37:42

because then people want to be that like

37:44

in the same sense that why did so many

37:47

when I grew up when why did so many

37:50

people start playing table tennis when

37:52

year round I won the world championship

37:54

of table tennis or stand mark won the

37:58

world cup over and over again in skiing

38:01

because they see these role models and

38:04

they want to do the same thing that's

38:05

just how humans work and I think that

38:09

this dynamic is really really important

38:13

putting the structures in place and the

38:17

incentives and disincentives as well I

38:20

think you're right in the sense but I'm

38:23

getting more to the point that we're I

38:25

think we're that for people to to be

38:29

connected to you you need to connect

38:32

with your heart yeah so we do a lot of

38:34

things because our left brain overrides

38:36

our heart right it's very easy because

38:39

logic tells us you know analytics tells

38:42

us intelligence machine learning and all

38:44

kind of logic whatever algorithm has

38:46

been put in place gives up some kind of

38:47

feedback on a rationale designed by

38:50

someone and I think the the incentive

38:54

for us then to step out of that is to

38:57

start to sense as a human you know how

39:00

do I feel

39:01

do I feel good about this how about in

39:04

the right direction or do I want to do

39:07

this or not you know I need to stay

39:08

close to the mic and can't go away from

39:10

it right so it's sort of but if we are

39:14

them if if you start to think from an

39:17

app from your heart on a daily basis

39:20

it's almost like a meditation you know

39:21

you don't need to meditate but you can

39:23

be can be just be present in your heart

39:24

to use your intuition if you do that

39:26

then a lot of choices a lot of things

39:30

that other people tell you to do will

39:31

just fall away and so I think this is

39:33

sort of the critical part is that

39:35

stepping out of that and stopping into

39:37

being being where you are then you use

39:39

your skills obviously an experience from

39:41

whatever you trained to do now I think

39:43

that a lot of the innovation that takes

39:45

time is the part where we try to fight

39:49

our we're so afraid of failing and

39:52

looking bad in front of other people

39:53

know that and and you know what's gonna

39:55

happen if

39:56

fail would I have be able to support my

39:58

family and there's somebody what will my

40:00

friends think yeah that's the biggest

40:01

one probably so my friends right yeah

40:03

probably the wrong friends that's

40:05

absolutely right

40:06

and I just think that that it has

40:09

certainly inhibited me in in many many

40:12

ways throughout my life and I mean you

40:15

know that's probably the biggest

40:16

inhibitor there is of innovation and

40:19

progress and all that so just and it's

40:22

natural because I know that's part of

40:23

evolution we are supposed to be a little

40:25

bit afraid of what our peer group is

40:27

gonna think the only difference is now

40:29

we don't actually die if we do something

40:33

that the group doesn't agree with we're

40:36

not killed and I have a question yeah

40:40

for qualified Planet three to five years

40:43

from now what the success looked like

40:46

the original vision of being a data

40:49

repository for innovation creating the

40:51

new fabric for entrepreneurs I want to

40:53

solve complexity or come up with new

40:55

solutions I think that is still in the

40:57

in the making there is still but that

40:59

might be there one of the outputs

41:02

another one is that we become very good

41:05

become very learn more and become a very

41:08

good at visualizing the data and

41:13

creating the feedback loop between human

41:15

and human and earth right so and that is

41:19

what we were doing our product

41:20

development because besides the

41:22

repository because what we learned is

41:24

that if we don't if we don't have our

41:27

own skunk work our own lab we have a lab

41:30

called global goals lab if we don't do

41:32

skank work with partners we don't bend

41:35

up the new data sets and by doing skank

41:37

work projects we figure out what works

41:39

and what doesn't so for example we did

41:41

robotics with whose Kriner and we put a

41:43

sensor on top of a rubber whose corner

41:46

robots that were going around Europe on

41:49

existing lands like a donate data on

41:51

visual on quality and temperature for

41:54

example I was very an interesting

41:56

project so are they are those robots

41:58

commercially so like okay no leave us a

42:00

researcher sort of a project with them

42:02

but that also was very interesting

42:05

because the AI department or the who's

42:07

corn I started to think about these new

42:08

datasets that weren't available

42:09

before him what can you build around it

42:11

so that was why in one interesting

42:13

project another project we did where

42:15

there we took an electric bike we worked

42:17

with our partners Kringle who donated

42:19

the bike for the journey and we also had

42:22

a little ledge Charlie behind where we

42:24

had a sensors we were biking around 11

42:27

citizen Sweden trying to collect data

42:29

sets as well and figuring out different

42:30

urban environments and discussing with

42:33

IT people from cities

42:34

what what what data is relevant in urban

42:37

environment and and that became a very

42:39

much an education project because you

42:40

realize people don't know so much oh I

42:42

would love you to do that and collect

42:44

acoustic data ah yeah so let loose yeah

42:46

sound pollution is big let's use its

42:49

real age and I think where we are now is

42:51

that we're in discussion with them for

42:53

example we know that SM Hawaii a

42:55

national weather forecaster right now is

42:57

encouraging people to take temperature

42:59

data sets right now they're

43:01

collaborating with the UK Weather

43:04

Service but you can if you would go out

43:06

and buy a sensor today you can connect

43:08

it to a decimal oil and we're trying to

43:10

figure out how we can be in help of that

43:12

as well so we're trying to figure out

43:14

how we can frog leap some of these

43:16

through our projects but also the big

43:19

project under 15 for us is obviously

43:20

working on biodiversity and how we can

43:23

recognize species and not just recognize

43:26

them because one cool super cool thing

43:28

with this biodiversity thing which is

43:31

mind-boggling in more than perhaps air

43:34

quality is is that I think we have said

43:38

we have 10 million species on earth um I

43:41

was very fortunate to met were there

43:42

alright professor Wilson last year he is

43:49

like a very old man and he's written

43:51

this book called half earth and I was

43:54

there with professor Antonelli I used to

43:56

be professor it's just a boy so nervous

43:58

University Anna and one of our advisors

44:00

in Maui he's had in Kent Gardens but

44:03

what's important is that the science

44:04

don't know where what grows where and

44:07

why it grows and we need to know much

44:10

more about that but one of the most

44:13

important things we learned through the

44:14

journey working on planet 15 and our

44:16

partners North Kingdom is that people

44:20

get get very happy when playing

44:23

game go out and scouting for something

44:26

of real yeah to be to actually connect

44:29

your your actions to climb to change

44:31

right not just doing a Pokemon or

44:34

playing Minecraft villages in a virtual

44:36

world we're really connecting to reality

44:38

that's why people loved geocaching yeah

44:41

for example absolutely right so so it's

44:44

very fascinating if we can create a tool

44:46

which we hope with partners and you're

44:47

pregnant coming on board and we need all

44:49

the help we can get on on tracking that

44:53

biodiversity what grows where and what

44:55

does it need as well so I I have a

44:57

question that's further down the list on

45:00

our cheat sheet and it is about giving

45:04

Antron ores device and one thing that is

45:08

been very valuable for the listeners and

45:12

I think for me personally it is that if

45:15

you would take out five or seven things

45:19

that like this is really something I

45:23

learned that I can recommend that is a

45:25

good advice for someone else try to fund

45:28

your first project your prototype with

45:32

the money not tied to stocks and shares

45:36

basically build your own skunk thing to

45:39

a level that you're a comfortable so

45:42

that you can keep more shares yeah not

45:44

just like don't even think of shares

45:46

first don't if you start a company

45:48

something try just to build with a help

45:50

with donation of time with people and

45:52

everything as much as you can without

45:54

trying to bring in cash and why is that

45:58

because your early idea you have no idea

46:01

where you going and and as soon as you

46:04

start to try to cash to it or it ties to

46:06

it you need to deliver on that what you

46:07

said you were going to do you keep your

46:09

promises yeah and they may be it totally

46:11

wrong you're as wrong promises and wrong

46:14

assumptions and you create a lot of

46:15

disappointment and stress around that

46:17

and try it and then you try to deliver

46:18

something that doesn't seem to work

46:20

right as yeah unless you find capital

46:22

that is very very agile and likes a

46:24

villa and a nice that's one critical

46:27

part the other one is of course that I

46:29

started a few companies I had one in

46:31

London as well and and and even if you

46:34

have you follow your heart and have an

46:36

idea

46:37

and then you get exhausted entrepreneur

46:39

because you do from time to time you

46:41

need to take a break but part of that is

46:43

then that you go like oh you know I

46:45

take this money anyway right

46:47

I can't it's it's probably good it's

46:50

probably good enough right and then you

46:53

knew that they wasn't the right kind of

46:55

guys right and then you I wouldn't say

46:58

you wasted your time but more or less

47:00

it's no you can't pull their push the

47:02

company in the direction you wanted

47:03

right so that is the that's my London my

47:07

startup in London so that's one part so

47:10

that you can and I think being able to

47:14

stay true to your own passion and vision

47:17

and like the mission yeah in life is

47:20

really what you're saying in that and if

47:22

you get interests that can be having

47:25

different vision and/or a different

47:27

passion or different agenda it's very

47:29

difficult then you can't be on your own

47:31

you need a team and you need to be very

47:33

very critical that you have the right

47:34

people on board with the shared mission

47:36

so that there really is support you and

47:39

then you should get to get some great

47:40

advisors but don't put them on your

47:42

board until you know what they deliver

47:44

that's sort of I mean of people I like

47:47

sitting on boards because they may have

47:49

had other positions but they may not be

47:51

risk takers at least in Sweden and I

47:53

think that's one of the things that

47:55

everyone is around you need to

47:57

understand risk yeah and behave

47:59

comfortable with it

48:00

yeah I think Nora not only as an

48:02

individual but I think one of the things

48:05

that we're not very good at in Sweden

48:06

that we need to become good at is being

48:09

comfortable with risk yeah and being

48:11

okay with people that I've failed yeah

48:13

and not saying well that's not a good

48:15

person because they failed

48:16

well they've assumed risk and you know

48:20

risk that's that property yeah

48:23

absolutely

48:23

and I think that's partly also

48:25

challenged for first startup some people

48:27

of getting public funding is that we

48:29

have a lot of well-meaning and

48:31

bureaucrats or people sitting in those

48:33

organizations but they're not trained to

48:35

take risks right right and they get

48:37

punished for taking risks even all right

48:39

yeah I wish is like it's a it's an

48:41

impossible situation

48:42

yeah so working with very big companies

48:45

one of the things that I've noticed is

48:48

that in many companies people's outcomes

48:53

are not to win but to not lose right and

48:57

it's very difficult to win if your

48:59

objective is to not lose

49:01

middle-management disease right yeah I

49:05

think there Peter Diamandis said it some

49:06

time ago it was just brilliant thing is

49:08

that sort of people big companies hires

49:12

managers who takes who are successful

49:16

and thereby successful but not taking

49:18

risks right so it's sort of non

49:21

risk-taker hires non risk takers right

49:24

and then you get stifled and locked

49:26

right right because you're the one

49:27

hiring that person so you don't want

49:29

them to fail all right all right and

49:30

then it because and the higher you climb

49:32

the more you have to do this right yes

49:34

so it's sort of a it's it's a difficult

49:37

it's difficult to be in a corporation as

49:39

well and drive change obviously as it's

49:42

not an easy nothing is easy

49:45

we need to celebrate that it's a it's a

49:48

partly a communication exercise yeah

49:51

like help Swedes understand that heroes

49:54

need to exist and your heroes are the

49:59

ones that go out on a trace adventures

50:01

and sometimes they don't make it right

50:04

so there's a quote that I've mentioned

50:05

in what's in the water before and it's

50:08

the stronger the wind the stronger the

50:11

trees good timber does not grow with

50:14

ease I think it's an amazing quote it's

50:16

amazing the concept of doing hard things

50:19

is a very important thing for a

50:22

meaningful life I think I think you're

50:24

absolutely right and if I would have one

50:26

advice to entrepreneurs it would be

50:29

start to figure out what you're knitting

50:31

your algorithm is going to be like what

50:34

problem do you want a dress better start

50:36

to look for the data sense them take the

50:38

meetings rather than taking meetings

50:40

from funders in other words go around

50:41

and ask out for data and then you know

50:44

call us if we can help or open up some

50:46

datasets for you and but this is what we

50:49

all need to do now we need to scout for

50:50

data and not data that just improves the

50:53

call center efficiency or something we

50:55

really need to start to crack a

50:56

crowdsource data that are connecting

50:59

people on planet

51:02

we've sort of and that might be

51:03

everything from transportation behavior

51:06

chain connected to food systems

51:09

ecosystems but that is sort of I think

51:13

that is the new training for

51:14

entrepreneurs and business model to

51:16

think about and I would argue don't even

51:18

think about the business model to start

51:20

with

51:20

think about the data yeah so and what

51:22

would you say because you've lived with

51:25

your datasets now for quite quite a

51:27

while yeah and I imagine you have a few

51:29

ideas that you know that you're not

51:31

gonna execute on right but maybe you

51:33

have some that you can give away and

51:34

somebody might hear it on this podcast

51:36

to say well I'm gonna do that well well

51:41

why don't they called me for a cup of

51:43

tea okay and I with a conversation with

51:45

it but let's say this that as there is

51:48

there's a lot of opportunity in food and

51:51

transformation around food yeah and I

51:53

think that is we've seen just in the

51:56

distribution model of that right now but

51:58

I think that is going to become each

52:00

yeah this is a very old-fashioned

52:02

distribution model about raw food today

52:05

I would say absolutely but it's also

52:07

sort of it's still liked and this is

52:10

interesting I saw well is that it's an

52:13

old model but it's oh it's changed

52:15

partly through the different multicast

52:17

initiatives right a little food room

52:20

bags we had pre-planned the founder of

52:24

meters ah great yeah on on the show on a

52:27

very yeah emotional episode because her

52:31

husband that was co-founder with her got

52:35

cancer at my past

52:36

Oh during their entrepreneurial this

52:41

there's a strong episode yeah very in a

52:44

story so yeah listen to that but yes

52:46

she's founded one of those companies yes

52:48

and and I mean there are several

52:50

problems around that like how food waste

52:52

and and you know the logistics chain

52:54

killing perfectly good food just because

52:57

logistics and you know all kinds of

52:59

things and you see companies like Karma

53:01

for example we're gonna have them on by

53:04

the way as well on the rice right so

53:09

that's exciting so we have a small hint

53:11

from you here that there are

53:12

opportunities in food that might there

53:15

where you might be

53:16

to use your data that's a hint now

53:18

that's a hint yes incumbent I would say

53:20

with the combination of other data

53:22

that's right that has been exploited why

53:24

you've mentioned Peter Diamandis several

53:27

times and singularity University several

53:29

times and I've been exposed to Peter

53:33

through an American called Tony Robbins

53:36

and but I think a lot of people might

53:41

not know who Peter Diamandis is and

53:44

maybe not singularity University do you

53:47

want to share something about that oh

53:48

yeah I think it's sort of him since I

53:51

had my I had my startup in the Silicon

53:55

Valley or actually in South Park in the

53:57

90s and nothing like singularity

54:00

University was around at the time and I

54:02

was trying to do do do the good right

54:04

thing at the time so I hang out with the

54:06

founders over at Valley juice company

54:08

and tried to find the social

54:09

entrepreneurs of the time but Peter and

54:12

the record swell did when they founded

54:13

singularity University they made a bet

54:15

on that artificial intelligence and

54:18

exponential technologies would have an

54:19

enormous impact on the future of the

54:21

world and they wanted to create a school

54:23

that where people could learn about the

54:25

future both corporations but also

54:27

students and they've been very

54:28

passionate and devoted to take in a

54:31

class each summer and train

54:33

entrepreneurs from all around the world

54:34

on on the latest intelligence of course

54:38

insights on on data and AI and I was

54:41

fortunate to be there years back on

54:43

honor an executive course for a week

54:45

what has why they are very important and

54:49

what their work is what is work is that

54:51

they giving a lot of young people

54:53

entrepreneurs around the world hope and

54:56

but they also giving them an insight

54:57

into us obviously people are scanned and

55:01

entrepreneurs from the beginning and

55:02

we've been doing here in Sweden we've

55:03

been a number of competitions which has

55:05

been sponsored by different actors to

55:08

bring a Swede to the summer camp so so I

55:13

think that their their ambition has been

55:16

great but then it's always part of them

55:21

when starting everything anything even

55:24

singularity university once I was the

55:26

things organization hit almost 10 years

55:29

it has it lets less of its radical mess

55:32

which it has in the beginning that

55:34

counts for everything so Peter s Connor

55:36

started a few other things as well

55:38

exploration XPrize and he is a couple of

55:42

few Morgan organization around but

55:44

expresses a brilliant initiative as well

55:45

doing a moonshot an idea and trying to

55:48

push for something and I think one story

55:50

that Peter as is teaching people is is

55:53

brilliant is that when he started XPrize

55:55

he had this idea for a long long time

55:57

and he went around to solely to so many

56:00

people he had so many pictures and he

56:02

just he was it was relentless of just

56:05

pushing it and trying to find the right

56:07

person right to fund it and eventually

56:09

he did that's what I think we need to

56:12

keep in mind sometimes that it's not

56:15

just stubbornness but is also patience

56:17

right yeah timing is always critical but

56:20

if you really passionate about something

56:22

and believe in it you just need to you

56:24

know stick and stick with it right

56:26

because it's not going to be easy but

56:27

you will eventually find someone who

56:29

gets it yeah and you see as a marketer

56:31

you you know that people most times need

56:35

to see things several times and become

56:38

acquainted to the idea yeah and I think

56:41

a common mistake is that you pitch

56:42

something once and then right you think

56:45

you're done but you've actually you know

56:47

you need to maybe show it to three times

56:50

absolutely more absolutely so and that

56:53

that I think also it's true that I mean

56:55

there are some idea one of the most

56:57

powerful ideas that has been marketed I

56:59

think in the latest you know the decade

57:02

is it's like the brand climate change

57:04

for example it's it's one of the most

57:07

well known brands in the world I would

57:09

say that term but it's been it's failed

57:12

well the action has failed but the brand

57:15

awareness is probably like a hundred

57:17

percent in the world or something like

57:18

that right yeah but it is interesting

57:19

because they Peter people don't click on

57:21

it mmm-hmm and they don't yeah and some

57:24

people don't believe in it and you know

57:25

that yeah I think we're just exhausted

57:27

but you may be right

57:28

the recognition on it yes the brand

57:30

recognition is probably one of the most

57:32

well known brands that although they so

57:35

and I think that some people also did a

57:37

brand job on changing the term because

57:39

it was called global warming distant

57:42

sound

57:42

but climate change sounds much less

57:45

dangerous than global warming

57:50

but I would make your argument I think

57:52

in general the environmental movement

57:53

the past 30 years have failed massively

57:56

it's just like a it's a joke the

57:59

insights the insights for what needed to

58:02

be done were there 30 years ago yeah and

58:04

and you can read books on and on by the

58:07

best in all of kind of forecasts but I I

58:10

think that comes back to the thing with

58:13

pain right so humans need to understand

58:17

its massive pain in the past massive

58:20

pain in the future massive pain today

58:22

and massive pain in the future then

58:23

humans change on a scale and I think

58:27

that that's a major problem with climate

58:30

change because it's difficult to feel

58:32

the pain well I have another suggestion

58:34

of what to do actually I haven't marked

58:36

it with a suggestion but I think it's

58:38

true and it's the same advice actually

58:40

that I gave to you Joanne when you

58:42

wanted to start working out more yeah

58:44

and is that you stopped using a long

58:47

term view you stopped taking a long-term

58:50

view and start taking a short term yes

58:52

so if you want to start getting into a

58:54

habit of exercising just exercise to

58:57

feel good today and the rest will follow

59:00

on its own so you start you exercise

59:02

early in the morning and you feel good

59:04

throughout that entire day and that's it

59:06

that's it that's the entire reason

59:07

you're doing it and if we can find

59:09

something similar I mean that's

59:11

obviously not the the goal of exercising

59:13

is to to become healthier but that goal

59:16

will take care of itself the score will

59:18

take care of itself

59:19

so what if we can find a way to do that

59:21

with climate change rather than saying

59:23

because climate change has the exact

59:25

same problem as the beach 9 20 19 by you

59:28

know that it's so far off and it's you

59:31

can't really see that it's too late yeah

59:33

and it's like yeah that I don't know

59:34

it's too far off for me to relate to but

59:37

if you think you'll find a proxy for

59:40

it's a short-term term proxy so you

59:42

don't take the car today you don't eat

59:44

meat today or whatever for some other

59:46

short-term reason that you can actually

59:48

enjoy or or you know suffer from today

59:52

then we could affect long term

59:56

because that will drive the behavior

59:58

much stronger than the long-term

60:00

incentive yeah so we find something like

60:03

that right right now in the podcast can

60:06

we figure out what that would be but you

60:07

know smelly smelly exhaust fumes from

60:10

you know you don't want that do it like

60:11

I think actually one guy that I think

60:13

did this well is Elon Musk he did not

60:16

sell the Tesla by saying that this car

60:19

will fix climate change and

60:22

notwithstanding if it does or does not

60:23

I'm not I don't not taking a stance on

60:25

that now but what he did was that he

60:27

said this is the most car fun car to

60:29

drive of all cars you'll never have more

60:32

fun in a car than this one and you know

60:34

the performance the design the the the

60:37

all the humor you put inside the car he

60:40

has the whoopee cushion in the car for

60:41

the kids this is like all this you know

60:43

this car is so much fun then it also

60:46

solves kind of the you know it's a

60:48

carbon neutral no it's an electric car

60:51

but he doesn't sell this that he sells

60:53

it as something with the short-term

60:55

benefit that's an example of how you

60:57

guys I think you're right in terms of

60:59

the aspiration designed I mean design

61:02

the strategy around it I think that's

61:03

totally right people want up cool things

61:05

and they want to drive fast obviously

61:07

Carson I remember my friend since

61:09

designer Francine in San Francisco when

61:11

they got their first test last feel

61:16

acceleration like okay I'm really

61:18

flowing back here into my seat doing

61:21

this just very quick you know and our

61:30

way I'm there I wrote one whatever I

61:32

think it's sort of right so I think this

61:36

sort of you totally right into some some

61:37

design things need to have designed

61:39

strategy things need to be designed

61:40

driven otherwise we don't want to where

61:42

if we don't believe one to be part of it

61:44

it can't be ugly and uncomfortable it

61:46

needs to be it needs to be well done and

61:49

I think that's for sure and I'm a little

61:53

bit more I'm wearing this that the other

61:57

part we need to engage in much more is

61:59

learning yeah a medication right yeah so

62:03

are we ourselves I was reading learning

62:07

at the right things right now

62:08

are our kids doing that if used to be a

62:12

platform to learn my daughter just

62:15

learned to do is I'm an amazing stuff

62:17

for me I stood SMAT down there jumping

62:20

doing all the trampoline trampoline

62:22

right she done that through YouTube

62:24

because she is watching someone and then

62:26

she records herself and she gets

62:28

feedback right from a community who

62:31

encouraged her and now in two weeks she

62:33

learned to do things she could not have

62:35

done earlier yeah cell phone right

62:37

we're under estimating that power I

62:39

think but I'm totally under estimating

62:41

the power of YouTube when we were

62:42

discussing schools and like actually how

62:44

should we change the school system

62:46

wealth YouTube did that already for you

62:48

it's it's the distribution for knowledge

62:51

right yeah but then again if you ask

62:54

yourself you know how do we change

62:55

behaviors well how do what what if we

62:59

would if we would create a new

63:00

civilization one we we would have to

63:04

create a new civilization even if we

63:05

would live a new planet or E or just in

63:07

a new village what would be the

63:10

principles for this and and I think the

63:14

long now foundation in in San Francisco

63:16

do do it could shot on this when they

63:18

created a library for a new civilization

63:20

right which I'm most critical books you

63:23

would have if you start we start every

63:24

civilization that is a very interesting

63:28

project exploit if we would ask

63:30

ourselves now what is it we really need

63:33

to know all right

63:34

if again it's completely different

63:36

things that you learn in school right

63:38

but it's like okay the storm hits us in

63:40

the city para goes out water comes to

63:44

town

63:45

heat goes up or heat goes down you never

63:48

know right

63:49

so it's easier probably to live in a

63:52

village then linearly in urban

63:54

environment where nothing works right so

63:56

okay I have my it's not just for the

63:59

worst-case scenarios but it could be a

64:00

longer period of time as well that's

64:03

what I'm trying to figure out so if we

64:04

go back to what you were saying before

64:05

like if the climate change being hot

64:08

Sweden being attracted to come to okay

64:10

that's all good yeah for tourists more

64:12

for ourselves enjoying a warmer summers

64:16

even in the north of Sweden but how are

64:19

we going to how can to manage this

64:21

change this

64:23

and I think training in perhaps YouTube

64:25

and allow the education initiatives is

64:27

critical

64:27

yeah I need you don't need to understand

64:29

the big picture I mean of course when

64:30

you say like okay it's you know climate

64:32

change that's great for Sweden property

64:34

prices will rise and we'll have all this

64:36

tourism yeah but we'll also have like a

64:38

zillion refugees coming up from the

64:40

countries that are flooded so that won't

64:42

work but that appears like when that's

64:44

right my reaction when I heard somebody

64:46

say that it's like well I don't that's

64:48

true yeah because if you destroy parts

64:50

of Earth then people will right need to

64:53

migrate you know assumptions about

64:56

second-order consequences that people

64:58

tend not yeah I think yeah so but but

65:01

when I say that I think that I think

65:03

short-term thinking is is undervalued

65:07

what I mean is that you need to make

65:10

sure you you have short-term term proxy

65:12

goals that will lead to the long-term

65:15

consequences that we want so that's

65:18

that's how I mean so I don't mean that

65:19

it's short-term that's yeah it's not

65:22

that that this is a good way to look at

65:24

the world but I think since humans wants

65:27

the sea and you know it's like you know

65:29

if you watch a child child pushes the

65:31

shared chair and the chair moves and the

65:33

child thinks that's great that's how we

65:34

humans basically work you know and want

65:37

the short-term effect but we need to map

65:39

those to the long-term ones and make

65:41

sure that there's a one way of leading

65:43

humanity in the right direction and

65:44

that's something we could work on I

65:46

think actually what your project is

65:48

doing is kind of helping us getting that

65:51

type of feedback and we just need to

65:53

make sure how do we how do we curate

65:56

that so it leads us in the right

65:58

direction

65:59

long term yeah and the challenge we have

66:02

and where we need all the help we can

66:04

get is basically getting two people to

66:05

think about data anyways is that how can

66:08

I donate my data

66:09

how can my company donate to the data

66:11

why should I

66:12

yeah yeah obviously the incentive I

66:14

think we're pretty clear on that we

66:16

would like to survive hopefully right

66:18

but but this question what data set

66:21

should we do them so what is the first

66:23

way to start your skunk work I would

66:25

argue go and buy a weather station right

66:27

with your data connected to a some oil

66:29

and to us start to donate your data and

66:32

it doesn't need to be a sensor one or

66:34

sores or have a lift

66:36

workshop at your in your garden party

66:38

next time or in your at your office

66:41

start to figure huh you know are there

66:43

any datasets we could donate because

66:45

what's really cool about donating data

66:47

hmm is that you give it away and you

66:50

still have it right exactly right yes so

66:54

it's you can really be very generous and

66:56

I think most people start to recognize

66:58

as well that it was very that is it's so

67:01

valuable I have to sit on it I think you

67:04

most people are recognizing that that's

67:05

it's not that valuable except Mark

67:07

Zuckerberg yeah he keeps his data but

67:12

it's also very much their algorithm is

67:14

built that's maybe they creep continues

67:17

to build that yeah empire of social

67:20

interactions yes so it's Sam there is a

67:23

there's a saying if you're a candle it

67:27

doesn't cost you anything to light

67:29

another candle that's what you actually

67:35

said it I think it's you're right you're

67:38

on all the quote machine or back you

67:43

should just close down that agency of

67:45

yours and start a tattoo shop of course

67:49

so one part of our audience is

67:52

politicians and for Swedish politicians

67:56

what advice would you give to Swedish

68:00

politicians if you care about your

68:04

future and um Sweden's future start to

68:08

learn about real-time data for people on

68:11

planet I think

68:12

slogans or policies that we see right

68:15

now in the space is outdated we will be

68:17

on that and and Swedes are much more

68:19

intelligent than than what we cater to

68:21

at the moment climate change is not

68:24

going to happen and behavior change is

68:26

not going to happen and policies can

68:28

absolutely happen in some way but you

68:30

need to be data-driven and it's not

68:32

about digitalization you need to have

68:34

real-time data and indeed you design

68:37

your solution your resolutions and your

68:39

policies based on data and the

68:41

intelligence I cut will come along and

68:44

also I would say that I totally

68:46

recognized the challenges for anyone be

68:49

a

68:49

sitting today in the existing system

68:52

trying to do - to solve the problems

68:55

with that but unfortunately you need to

68:58

be much more radical than where you are

68:59

at the moment I know that the that's

69:01

also something that came up in a China

69:02

discussion that they're monitoring their

69:04

society in a very big way yeah but

69:08

they're also using that - that data -

69:11

just to kind of get inspiration or yeah

69:16

for the decisions they make on a policy

69:19

level so that's it kind of in a way it's

69:22

kind of a direct democracy where you see

69:24

what people are doing I want to held

69:25

erect into things and what they talk

69:27

about online and then you start you know

69:29

create catering to that basically you

69:32

know I'm not saying that that that's the

69:35

system we want but but it's it's

69:36

interesting to think about it in the

69:38

same way we think about roads if the

69:40

government would start setting up like

69:42

the monitoring not perhaps your privates

69:46

you know what you're doing as an

69:48

individual but but looking at it as

69:51

roads or in public infrastructure just

69:53

to help gather data that is useful for

69:56

the entire society that would be

69:58

interesting to see if that's like a

70:00

future where we're heading towards where

70:02

we start looking at sense sensors

70:04

basically as roads what do you think do

70:07

you think that will happen I think it's

70:09

already happening in the way if we take

70:11

a sample of ways for example yeah

70:13

corporations really partnership right

70:15

now and start to share data assets and

70:17

to certain extent right so I think

70:19

you're right that that is happening if

70:21

we just look at China as a dictatorship

70:23

obviously they have opportunities that

70:25

other nations don't and and risks

70:27

according to that of course but the I

70:30

would argue today that citizens and P

70:35

Swedes are prepared to donate a lot of

70:37

data for good purposes of solving

70:40

because a lot of people are very

70:42

frustrated at how policy works today and

70:44

municipalities are managed so I think

70:47

they're what we see in in on the on some

70:49

some smart city Barcelona just or as

70:51

Mercy to New York that's going on just

70:52

right shortly it's it's I think that we

70:56

these initial Uche ins are there for

70:59

cities to adapt and bill intelligent

71:01

into the system

71:03

no one so far has cracked how to engage

71:06

the citizens and I think that's where we

71:08

are coming in the quantified planet

71:10

where we can help so I think that your

71:13

ideas around skunkworks

71:15

it is brilliant I haven't thought about

71:16

it for a while so much as it's been such

71:19

a natural part of my thinking but if we

71:21

really start to think about it

71:23

critically again I just I was just

71:25

looking at the book of Marvin Minsky

71:28

society of mind a Marvin Minsky boys AI

71:32

professor very one of the Giants before

71:35

array and I want and what I think is

71:38

sort of we need to recognize that the

71:40

problem-solving we need to do in policy

71:42

level in the government of Sweden and an

71:44

edge apart we need a lot of skank

71:46

workshops yeah what what if we would

71:48

transform here's an actual idea for you

71:50

politicians listening what if we would

71:52

just say okay school is not about

71:55

reading up on old books anymore our

71:57

schools and the universities are the new

72:00

skunkworks

72:01

of company Sweden and then we start

72:04

providing resources to them in terms of

72:06

experts and and data and knowledge and

72:09

then we will just have the universities

72:12

being the skunkworks creating new ideas

72:16

I think that's brilliant

72:18

but then I would argue also please do

72:19

that universities and outside the

72:21

existing funding system that they are

72:24

and how they measured yeah so make those

72:26

skunkworks free spaces run by preferably

72:30

entrepreneurs who don't need to publish

72:32

a paper to get funded for the next or

72:34

risk their reputation right yeah

72:36

failure celebrates failure in those gun

72:38

failure and innovation and it also

72:41

of course coordinated to people on

72:43

penetrate major right so what advice do

72:47

you have for us because we're a startup

72:49

what's in the water is the startup and

72:52

in building this because we we have a

72:55

big outcome we want to transform

72:57

Scandinavia in the world with

73:00

entrepreneurship that makes the world

73:02

better what should we do well well to

73:06

make it simple we we we want this area

73:09

of the world here to become for

73:13

entrepreneurship and ID as an innovation

73:16

what

73:17

Seattle was for the four grunge in the

73:19

90s that's what we want to make happen

73:21

we somebody told us earlier today that

73:23

the American Dream is alive and well in

73:27

Sweden but a new version so you know I

73:33

would love for us to build that in

73:36

Scandinavia become there is a new

73:39

innovation and creativity

73:41

you know the skunkworks of the world if

73:43

you will

73:44

that's what I would love for us to

73:45

become do you have any idea of like how

73:47

if we want that to happen how could we

73:50

help us you know as how can politicians

73:54

help through policy to make that happen

73:56

no you changed to what's in the water no

74:00

I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm I mean I'm an

74:03

idiot let's go back no but we how can we

74:08

not right how can how can we how can we

74:13

make that help make that happen as it

74:15

but now this question it just became

74:16

crazy let's restart this you

74:19

you'll have to ask this question I'm

74:21

gonna turn down the volume so what's in

74:28

the water what's in the water is action

74:32

I'll wait to wait for it what's in the

74:36

water is actually a startup with the

74:39

purpose to improve entrepreneurship and

74:43

create prosperity by doing that in

74:46

Scandinavia in the rest of the world and

74:49

what Walter may or have may not

74:53

mentioned as we spoke reducing it okay I

75:01

can just answer yes just as so that was

75:07

a tough question yeah and a confused one

75:11

complexity is confusing right it's not

75:14

easy problem to solve but I think the

75:16

Sweden and as you think Sweden can play

75:20

a great role here in Scandinavian

75:22

countries and the reason for that is

75:23

that we have some we have some role

75:25

models we don't have it in

75:26

sustainability quite yet but we have a

75:28

lot of people who care

75:30

about the future for Humanity in the and

75:33

the future for planet Earth so that is

75:35

the very good base and we are also a

75:37

brand Sweden will attract a lot of

75:39

talent and we have entrepreneurs like

75:42

Donnelly AK and others that are trying

75:44

to do initiatives to attract even more

75:46

talent coming here and work and through

75:49

different initiatives so what I think

75:52

what you guys can do and what we can do

75:55

together is obviously to start be very

75:58

very precise on on as a skank work

76:02

thinking around people and planet right

76:06

and by bringing together scientists and

76:09

entrepreneurs will also have a very

76:12

critical discussions on round data

76:14

because intelligence and data this is

76:17

where we need to be focusing them and

76:19

not just ideas lalala which ideas are

76:23

not bad is just that we need to become

76:25

very like prototype oriented of bringing

76:28

together people on who can donate and

76:31

share different data sets because then

76:33

we can start to building for his

76:35

algorithms and that I think is the

76:37

easiest I want the easiest nothing is

76:40

easy but that has a great potential of

76:43

building really wise into algorithms

76:46

that can solve problems I don't know

76:49

solve them today and the reason my

76:53

experience is well is that science still

76:55

if we go to any environmental scientist

76:58

it is very very few people on earth in

77:00

an environmentally sound are skilled in

77:03

artificial intelligence or intelligence

77:04

data and the same thing we have for data

77:08

scientists right they are make great

77:10

mathematicians but they know very little

77:13

about nature or about urban ensign right

77:16

so we have trained the very much of our

77:19

skilled pool we have today and

77:20

professors are in disciplines its from

77:22

universities and even if entrepreneurs

77:25

is be doing a lot of serial startups so

77:26

have doing in a certain categories but

77:29

they are it's very much Silas still

77:31

between this right so we create we leave

77:34

a sort of a big remix which I guess you

77:36

know what's in the water is a remix all

77:38

the things but we really rapidly need to

77:41

start to learn from each other much more

77:43

quickly

77:44

because it's not happening in academia

77:47

that's for sure

77:48

and it's not happening only in regular

77:50

business right it's gone way too slowly

77:52

it's almost like the drug lords of the

77:56

eight 70s and eight is vertically

77:58

integrated rather than yeah it's a

78:02

interesting familiarity like they first

78:12

grew or produced the drugs and then they

78:16

had multiple disciplines where they

78:19

mastered several of them that are value

78:22

chain yeah and and what years it's just

78:27

a funny way of saying that we need to

78:30

work cross-functionally as well right

78:34

but but then we also need to have a lot

78:36

of fun yes Sumer is an adventure

78:40

otherwise it's not really a big fan of

78:42

playing around actually that's super

78:45

important so I think we're we're almost

78:48

done I think so do you have anything

78:51

else that you wanted to talk about that

78:52

we missed yeah I would perhaps mention

78:55

just again let's see if you think this

78:57

is relevant but there's a clarification

79:00

a lot of people run initiatives around

79:03

artificial intelligence right now and

79:05

they do workshops and seminars which is

79:07

all very good but I would encourage

79:10

people to start to work much more on the

79:13

data I'm sorry to think about the data

79:16

sets itself don't talk about AI talk

79:18

about what's inside the AI is the data

79:20

you can't build any intelligence without

79:22

the data right and the data we have so

79:25

far on the planet right is very much

79:27

dead of data it's it's still right we

79:29

need live data live streaming data so we

79:32

can't do research in speed and we can't

79:34

even build prototype without streaming

79:36

live data assets that's the new fabric

79:38

we need so that's where I think we

79:40

should I would love to shift the

79:42

conversation to the live streaming data

79:44

for the future of humanity right that's

79:47

a very good ending yes or a beginning so

79:53

much for coming thank you be

79:56

thank you for listening to what's in the

79:58

water

79:59

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80:02

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80:04

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80:07

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80:10

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80:51

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80:53

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80:56

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80:58

what's in the