The Kamikaze Food Project With Paradiset Founder Johannes Cullberg

Johannes Cullberg

Starting a new food retailer chain from scratch, competing with the oligopoly giants is basically suicidal. Still, Johannes Cullberg decided to do just that with his Whole Foods-esque high-quality chain Paradiset.

In this unbelievable David & Goliath-story, we talk to Johannes about the entire journey, from his blitz-career at Lidl, to realizing he'd become an a-hole, to reconnecting with his values, and finally going on this crazy mission to bring us all better food. 

Do. Not. Miss. This. Episode. Possibly our best yet. And also – of course – don't forget to subscribe!

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Transcript

Note: This is an auto-generated transcript that will butcher words and names sometimes (Our favorite is when our guest Johannes Cullberg became “Your Hummus Cool Bye”). The format is not optimized for reading, but for searching for specific segments. Hence the timestamps etc. Happy searching!

Walter

Yes

I've started a cleanse

00:04

[Music]

00:06

started a what yeah I'm I've done it

00:09

several times before actually I go when

00:11

he chews fast Wow

00:13

okay so I'm glad we're recording now and

00:15

not in the end of the week because it

00:17

could be you could be a little weak no

00:20

so so what actually happens is I usually

00:23

have so much more energy in the end of

00:26

the week and it's vegetable juice for

00:29

the record not fruit juice but no food

00:31

for eight days and I had more energy

00:34

after eight days and it's because I

00:37

sometimes eat crap and that's what are

00:39

we gonna talk about today as well yeah

00:41

today we have a very special guest as a

00:43

guy who's gone on a complete kami Casas

00:46

project of trying to start a new grocery

00:49

store chain in Sweden which is a market

00:52

where there are giants to beat and he's

00:55

basically doing it us the Whole Foods of

00:57

Sweden you could say yeah absolutely and

00:59

I I think I just loved the name for

01:02

starters paradise woulda T for a decent

01:05

yeah you can't say paradise with just

01:08

paradise in Swedish this is a dedicated

01:10

guy he tattooed the logo on his forearm

01:13

and he's like he's going for it and he

01:16

he built like 25 Lidl-stores before

01:19

this launching legal in Norway and did

01:22

that in like four minutes this is a real

01:27

entrepreneur this guy yeah if anybody

01:29

should go and that come across the

01:30

project it's him and we think you'll

01:33

love this episode and by the way this

01:36

initiative that we are doing here the

01:39

what's in the water initiative it's to

01:41

make the world better for you and for us

01:45

and for our kids and for everyone

01:47

because there's a problem now coming up

01:49

with automation and AI and the world

01:51

will see one of two things either mass

01:54

unemployment or a new era of prosperity

01:57

where we can use all these resources to

02:00

start new companies and we want to be

02:02

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share this with your friends and if you

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02:23

this because it's really

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important that we have more great

02:28

entrepreneurship let's start this

02:31

episode yes and we bring you Johannes Cullberg

02:35

[Music]

02:59

you are basically the Whole Foods of

03:02

Sweden is that a fair way to put it it's

03:06

a very charming way to put it I am very

03:11

inspired by Whole Foods but also quite a

03:14

few other American retailers so but of

03:17

course Whole Foods is the one you know

03:18

and they're doing an amazing job but is

03:20

this possibly the worst idea you can

03:22

ever get to start a food retailer yeah

03:27

for sure and I used to say this is like

03:29

the definition of a kamikaze project

03:32

because quite a few people have thought

03:35

of the idea to start I mean why don't we

03:39

have a Whole Foods in Sweden and I have

03:43

started a grocery chain before Lidl in

03:46

in Germany but and and I started in

03:49

Norway but and backed by billions then

03:53

it's a bit a different story it's quite

03:56

a lot easier although it's quite

03:58

difficult then as well and you that grew

04:00

pretty quickly yeah yeah we we opened

04:03

ten stores in one day and then we opened

04:07

basically one store every month and I

04:09

was there I work for three years three

04:13

and a half years for four little but

04:16

after two years in in Norway and sort of

04:21

extreme corporate values that I really

04:24

didn't share I I left but we had 30

04:26

stores basically by that time so oh that

04:29

sounds can we can we talk about the

04:31

court that the corporate values thing is

04:33

there is something that you can

04:35

something you can share absolutely yeah

04:38

first of all Lidl today is a completely

04:41

different company which I really respect

04:44

so if I would have started now I I think

04:48

I mean the story would have been

04:50

different but back then there was 2002

04:55

it was all about making money and only

05:00

men doing the work and the women in the

05:03

company were

05:04

to the men and the values were basically

05:08

I mean focused on quality at the lowest

05:10

price but you could they were screaming

05:13

and it at each other they were really

05:18

using the worst of the male sort of

05:21

dominant psychology and but but what

05:26

affected me what was scary to me was

05:29

that I actually turned into such a

05:31

person after a while basically now

05:33

that's why I quit because when you start

05:36

it so obvious like you really don't like

05:38

the way you're being treated and seeing

05:41

how they treat others but you think like

05:43

okay I'm never going to turn into this

05:46

and and they're they're crazy but then

05:49

two three years in I was really drunk at

05:53

a party and I told this guy in Sweden

05:57

well who the are you and how much

06:00

money do you make when I woke up the day

06:03

after it's like oh I am a little person

06:07

and then I quit we need to address the

06:10

fact possibly that little has changed or

06:12

yeah yeah for sure sure but I mean I I

06:14

made so much money back then I will

06:17

never ever make that much money again

06:19

and that I don't think that's very

06:21

healthy when you're was like 27 or

06:25

something but little today as I said is

06:28

really reunited the company and the

06:34

whole strategy is more focused on

06:36

environmental products they're really

06:39

taking responsibility for transport for

06:42

packaging and and in many aspects

06:45

leading the development of grocery

06:47

retail in Sweden for sure so that's

06:49

pretty impressive in my book there

06:51

they're kind of famous for their

06:53

vegetables yeah yeah they're very you're

06:56

in your mind - yeah they're good they're

06:59

really good I would have liked them to

07:02

have more organic but it's coming but

07:04

the quality of their fruit and veg and

07:09

compared to to the prices is really

07:12

really good and obviously I mean they

07:15

have such a huge volume

07:17

and it's a big sort of system where the

07:21

brother of the fruit and vegetable

07:24

purchaser has the biggest farms I mean

07:26

they've grown under so many years so

07:29

they've seen like okay so we need

07:30

Tomatoes okay I'll buy this farm and pop

07:32

up up and so now they're controlling

07:35

everything and when they buy wine they

07:36

buy the whole year's

07:38

yeah so that and that makes it very

07:41

difficult for people like you right the

07:44

small guys yeah how do you manage that

07:46

well if we move over to the Swedish

07:50

situation where we have one really

07:52

dominant player who's doing a really

07:55

good job I have to add in in dominating

07:58

the market and I mean and that's Iike or

08:00

yeah that's iike they've been around for

08:02

about a hundred years and it takes a

08:07

while to get the sort of platform but

08:11

they have been really good at utilizing

08:14

the platform and building a super strong

08:17

brand they have the best locations and

08:19

they have some really really skilled

08:22

traders operating their own stores they

08:25

have a franchise system that's brilliant

08:27

so you can really earn a lot of money if

08:30

you do a good job so I have the deepest

08:33

respect for the retailers and and for

08:37

each corporation it's just a bit sad for

08:40

for me I mean it's it's a super tough

08:44

competitor to fight against in if you

08:48

look at Germany for example you have a

08:51

few large ones but you have quite a few

08:54

medium-sized and also a lot of smaller

08:56

smaller ones they have a culture of it's

08:59

okay to start a new grocery store

09:01

grocery chain and it's nothing super

09:04

weird here in Sweden you're considered

09:07

completely crazy because nobody's done

09:09

it for a very very long time and

09:12

everybody who knows anything about it

09:14

would tell you yeah don't do it yeah

09:17

there's actually one out here in brahma

09:19

called Yarra piss have you heard of that

09:21

nope it's a fantastic little store it's

09:23

the guys from one of the from mk1 little

09:27

used to be the one of the leading ones

09:28

in the city and they opened up this low

09:31

completely independent and they have

09:34

really great meets and that kind of

09:37

thing people travel there from all over

09:39

Stockholm but it's not like a deli it's

09:41

it's an actual grocery store no so but

09:45

they're the only one and and yeah that

09:47

that's the difference I mean if they

09:49

plan to grow that's another thing but

09:51

one store is some one thing and and you

09:55

can focus on doing that profitably I

09:58

mean it's it's a big investment in both

10:00

in money and time but to me I always

10:04

wanted to be a grocery chain because

10:08

that's you need to have a larger volume

10:11

if you want to be able to serve people

10:14

with good prices and the marketing costs

10:18

go down if you have more places to visit

10:21

so yeah it's a difference they have one

10:25

product there which is like the killer

10:27

product

10:28

everybody's going there to buy it they

10:30

have this I don't know what that name is

10:33

hurry up what's how yeah in English I

10:35

don't roll or something along those

10:38

lines it's meat anyway it's minced meat

10:40

and it's like the best quality you could

10:42

ever find if you make burgers out of

10:44

that it's like you always meet chef

10:45

stout they're buying that and this is

10:47

actually really cheap it's like 100

10:48

kroner per kilo so it's there no they're

10:51

lost leader product ever do you have a

10:54

product like that well and we have a few

10:57

products like that we actually are meat

10:59

that we're famous for is from Grenada

11:02

which is it's organic and grass-fed beef

11:07

and we have a special collaboration with

11:08

garlic water and yeah that meat is

11:11

amazing and if you look also from a

11:14

sustainability and sort of climate

11:16

perspective having grass-fed cows I mean

11:22

being able to picture the walk around

11:25

and in the free all year round it's

11:28

actually a good thing for for the

11:30

climate so you can eat that with good

11:33

conscience it's better for your body

11:35

yeah for sure yeah for sure

11:37

when you woke up that morning after the

11:41

drunk party and asking the

11:45

the Swedish guy how much he he he made

11:49

in a year what shifted what thoughts

11:52

went through your head and what shifted

11:55

inside of you so for the second part the

12:00

second question that read what happened

12:02

when I woke up I was so ashamed by

12:05

myself I had to call the guy who had the

12:08

party and asked did I really really say

12:10

this because I thought I hoped it was a

12:12

nightmare but he said I did and he was

12:18

not very impressed and I just I just

12:22

realized I mean I could continue

12:26

make even more money and be financially

12:30

independent in a year or two for the

12:33

rest of my life but I would become an

12:37

asshole even bigger asshole and that's

12:40

not I was the way I was taught to be so

12:44

I thought the only the only decent thing

12:47

is to leave now when I have this fresh

12:52

in my memory because if I get back and

12:56

the pain disappears yeah the pain

12:58

disappears and they probably gonna slap

13:00

another bonus on my desk and then it's

13:03

super difficult so no I just decided to

13:08

do it and I flew back to - no way I

13:11

called my boss who was in in Holland who

13:15

I really really liked and I said so

13:18

sorry but this doesn't work for me I'm

13:21

gonna quit and I was offered to become

13:23

the CEO of Sweden and and other

13:26

positions in Germany and I said nope I

13:30

will you're done yeah I'm done and I

13:33

flew back to Sweden and I cut my I

13:37

started working for an occupational

13:39

health care provider called feel good

13:41

and so I reduced my salary by 75% and

13:45

but yeah it was the right decision to do

13:49

yeah what happened so you went from from

13:51

Lidl to feel good yeah and how long did

13:53

you stay there yeah but feel good at

13:56

feel good and III did like three years

13:58

tense all the time

13:59

so I was basically three years I'd feel

14:02

good I started the first three months I

14:03

was head of regional sales and and then

14:09

I became CEO after three months so

14:12

[Music]

14:13

vice-president basically and then after

14:16

a year the CEO was fired because she was

14:20

turning the company yeah upside down so

14:22

after 15 months I was interim CEO of the

14:27

whole group where the task to turn the

14:30

company around make it profitable

14:31

because it was bleeding like crazy and

14:35

we did we turned it around and made it

14:37

the most profitable year ever but that

14:40

was also quite a lot of hard work and

14:43

being quite lonely

14:44

I actually got recruited before in

14:48

between I I got recruited by the former

14:51

head of what's it called nanny's lease

14:55

minister a head of business in Minister

14:58

of Business Bureaus angry on for a sort

15:03

of a startup that he and two others had

15:04

founded a couple of years two years

15:06

earlier and sold for a hundred million

15:09

to healthcare so I became the CEO

15:12

with the job to take it from X to Y with

15:18

the promises that yeah there's so many

15:21

things in place and this was gonna be a

15:23

fun ride and after a few weeks a few

15:26

months I realized that everything he had

15:28

said was and there was funded

15:31

on yeah I was founded on lies and

15:35

deceits and when I found that out I'm

15:39

not the guy who sits around and it just

15:41

takes it so I told the board and I told

15:44

the owners and then Bjorn said I wasn't

15:46

very that nice guy he thought I was so I

15:49

was fired yeah instantly when I hear

15:52

your story yeah I think the people have

15:56

a strong need to stay consistent with

15:58

their own identity yeah and I think that

16:02

what what really really shows in this is

16:05

your is your values and your identity

16:09

and if things goes outside of your

16:12

values and identity

16:13

you have a very strong like if the line

16:17

is crossed then the line is crossed and

16:22

there is no turning back

16:23

ya know for sure and I think actually

16:26

it's because of my dad mostly who's

16:30

who's a trained doctor and a

16:33

psychiatrist and he's a professor in

16:36

psychiatry and he always taught us to

16:39

help the weak always help the weak and

16:42

and always try to be supportive and very

16:45

is a strong social democrat or very left

16:49

left wing and I think that has

16:53

influenced me I obviously revolted and

16:55

became conservative ish but then now I'm

17:00

sort of it going back but I remembered

17:03

like the other instance I remember in my

17:06

life it was the one time I bullied

17:08

another guy it was in the same street

17:12

and we were playing in the sort of Park

17:14

and Paul Dewey and then I was maybe six

17:20

we were playing around and then from a

17:25

whim I don't know we were teasing this

17:27

guy and we were climbing on a big sort

17:32

of construction and I spat on the guy's

17:35

jacket for some reason I don't know and

17:37

he ran home and half an hour later his

17:41

father came with a jacket when you could

17:44

see this bit on the jacket and I was and

17:47

of course my parents were furious and I

17:50

was so embarrassed so that was the one

17:52

and only time but this and sort of the

17:55

little experience were like that they're

17:57

always gonna be with me as examples of

18:01

what not to do and you instantly feel

18:04

when you cross the line yeah so but

18:07

those are like beacons young your

18:09

personality almost yes I think it's good

18:12

to have those really strong emotional

18:13

moments that you can kind of navigate

18:15

yeah with and now I have my three kids

18:19

on my own and I'm teaching my especially

18:22

my son because he has a lot of

18:24

similarities with with me and and

18:26

I'm teaching him to be very respectful

18:31

of the ones who cannot defend themselves

18:33

and I hope that will sort of instill

18:36

this yeah a good good radar for him we

18:41

talk a lot about here the new type of

18:44

entrepreneurship which is I guess not

18:46

new it's always kind of been around but

18:49

now I think it's it's the the time is

18:52

Comfort really flourish and it's where

18:55

you build in a good cause into the

18:58

actual business

18:58

yeah and that there's no conflict

19:01

between profits and that the rather that

19:04

if you if you have a company and you

19:06

have a good cause for the company and

19:08

you make a lot of profit you will

19:09

attract a lot of investment also to to

19:12

even you know to further that cost even

19:14

more and I think your companies is a

19:16

good example of that but there are

19:17

several others I think you know Stefan's

19:20

company cake or you know the bunch of

19:22

those companies out and we actually had

19:25

Jenny caisson who's only investing in

19:28

that so my equity yeah I think actually

19:30

she introduced us to you yeah but I

19:34

think that is just so interesting

19:36

because then you can actually put a lot

19:38

of power behind these good ideas and and

19:40

you don't have to rely on people's

19:42

goodwill people will invest just because

19:44

it's profitable even if they don't want

19:46

to change the world they will invest in

19:48

it but the idea will still be there to

19:50

change the world so yeah that's kind of

19:51

an interesting turn of events for the

19:54

world right now yeah and I think the

19:57

most important what you're saying here

19:59

is that you can actually make a lot of

20:01

money in doing the good good things you

20:04

have to sometimes work harder work

20:06

smarter and but it's becoming easier as

20:10

the the bad capital is sort of I mean

20:14

I'm working with banks as we have

20:17

sponsor from my podcast and I'm starting

20:20

to realise the amount of money they're

20:22

handling and if they realize that the

20:24

billions of Swedish kronor that they're

20:27

using you in different funds and and if

20:31

they send it to investments where people

20:33

know this is not this is not something

20:36

sustainable and they're gonna turn to

20:38

another bank so

20:40

the power in the money is so important

20:44

and when the good companies get the good

20:48

terms and access to more capital then

20:51

you can really start doing some

20:53

important stuff so yeah everything is so

20:56

visible now with social media and

20:57

everything so if you don't want to be

20:58

connected to brands that are not doing

21:01

good because that's part of your

21:02

identity I think even more so it's

21:04

always been that way but it's even more

21:05

so today when it's so important to show

21:08

your identity and not only to others but

21:11

also to yourself in what products you

21:14

consume and that drives sales and that

21:16

drives investments and you know that's

21:18

how we can ultimately save the world and

21:21

so that's kind of cool

21:21

yeah but then there's a discrepancy

21:23

between loving and following a brand and

21:26

shopping at a brand and this is

21:29

something I've experienced which is a

21:31

bit frustrating but so the only way I

21:36

can really turn parties it into I mean a

21:40

big big impact if I would continue to

21:46

build grocery stores is to have that

21:49

kind of volume that I can push prices

21:52

down and really compete on price because

21:56

we in Sweden are so brainwashed that

21:58

price is the key factor when you buy

22:01

something the values and the quality is

22:05

second and third and so sadly even

22:09

though your organic advocate you're

22:13

going to look at prices many of them so

22:15

so then convenience and convenience for

22:18

sure that's that's actually the the

22:20

biggest factor so if you have an ek

22:22

store next to you you're nine times out

22:25

of ten I'm gonna go there and then the

22:27

tenth time maybe you go to parties it

22:29

yeah and that makes it very difficult to

22:31

survive if you're the the smaller guy so

22:34

you have to find other ways how to

22:37

become profitable because if you're not

22:39

profitable you're not gonna survive

22:41

you're not gonna make an impact so

22:42

that's why I'm 100% focused now on just

22:46

reaching profitability you have that

22:49

group that kind of wanna they like your

22:52

brand but they don't really show up

22:53

there you have a surprise

22:54

you have the other group or like why is

22:56

not this 100% organic and you know and

23:00

because you're not you're like 70%

23:03

organic yeah but I know you talked about

23:08

peppers paprika peppers in in another

23:12

podcast I heard with you yeah and we've

23:14

also talked about peppers with another

23:15

person actually we and it it it seems

23:18

that peppers is one of those things that

23:19

people know that that should be organic

23:21

but it's a that's actually based on a

23:23

misconception that it was black pepper

23:25

not peppers yeah okay

23:27

so that's a peppers it's actually grown

23:29

in the greenhouse it doesn't there's no

23:31

pesticides that no but yeah there's a

23:36

lot of misconceptions I call it Facebook

23:38

knowledge because there's so many people

23:40

who they have very strong opinions and

23:44

they've learned it from Facebook yeah so

23:47

especially talking about like plastic

23:49

bags versus paper bags the even not to

23:54

who it's free onion and the big sort of

23:58

organization pro bono that's helping

24:02

preserving the nature they have very

24:06

very clearly stated that it's not more

24:09

sustainable for the nature or like an

24:13

energy perspective to use paper bags

24:16

than plastic bags in Scandinavia because

24:19

we burn our garbage anyways so it is a

24:23

lot more and it you need a lot more

24:26

energy to produce a paper bag it costs

24:29

more and and you cannot reuse the

24:31

material in the same way acid and some

24:33

other plastic bags that are being

24:35

produced today and it's still going to

24:38

being incinerated so but if people come

24:42

in and everyday say like why the heck

24:45

don't you only have paper bags it

24:48

doesn't matter because you cannot talk

24:49

to everybody and try to come in and so

24:51

we have to sit on the bag yeah but then

24:54

you have the big ones the the II can

24:57

Hampshire they're also supporting the

24:59

discussion and pushing like the paper

25:02

bag concept yeah and then it becomes

25:05

very difficult so you have to sort of

25:07

say okay

25:08

it we'll do the paper bags but it's

25:10

ultimately not good for not better for

25:13

the environment

25:14

you should put that on the paper bag you

25:16

should write that this is actually the

25:17

the least beneficial choice for the name

25:20

yeah yeah but then you have to do with

25:23

the discussion with the Facebook people

25:24

yeah every day and that takes time and

25:26

it costs a lot of money so then

25:28

sometimes you need to shut up and just

25:29

see how you can win in other areas but I

25:33

think I think there is good you as the

25:36

CEO that you have your own the podcast

25:40

and use your own media your own voice as

25:45

a media channel yeah no that's that's

25:48

actually I mean one of the reasons I

25:50

started it because there are so many

25:54

interesting things to know and it's so

25:56

many complex things you know both

25:58

regarding food and health but also the

26:01

food production and everything around it

26:03

that you cannot just write on a note or

26:08

or look at Facebook you need to speak to

26:13

quite a few experts and listen to a few

26:16

experts to get your own opinion more

26:19

validated or the environment and and

26:23

sustainability for the environment

26:25

that's one thing then you have the whole

26:26

health getting and that's even worse

26:29

health populism is I think rampant yeah

26:33

and the interesting part you have both

26:35

health and you have food so which are

26:39

both kind of close to religion in their

26:41

own respective parts so you have like

26:44

the the the the one group of foodies

26:47

saying our food people saying like you

26:50

have chosen a diet let's say your low

26:53

carb high fat and then you have the

26:57

other group that's paleo and then you

26:59

have a third being vegan and all of them

27:03

believe they are right and there is no

27:07

compromise they it's very very difficult

27:10

for them to see like okay maybe we all

27:12

have something and that's right and and

27:16

maybe it's just we should take part of

27:18

it and and not put labels on everything

27:21

and and but it's super super good for

27:25

marketing so all the marketing companies

27:28

and the food industry loves this

27:32

discussion and this uncertainty that you

27:35

create because it drives sales right so

27:38

as long as as long as you can create

27:43

this uncertainty and this is going to go

27:48

on and because you make so much money of

27:50

it as a food production and not only

27:52

uncertainty you also have the

27:53

polarization yes yes of everything and

27:56

that's not only true for food it's true

27:58

for politics and it's true for all these

27:59

things and it's driven on by you know

28:02

the algorithms of social media that you

28:05

will hear more from people that think

28:06

like you yeah so after a while they all

28:08

think like okay so everybody in the

28:09

world is paleo oh yeah you know low-carb

28:12

or whatever and everybody else is an

28:15

idiot mmm and this unfortunately how the

28:18

word world is that's all isn't that true

28:21

Walter what what that everyone that

28:24

doesn't think like you are an idiot for

28:27

yeah for me is true but ya know this

28:33

that's that's that's what DRI that was

28:36

driving profitability for if for you

28:38

know the social media because you know

28:40

an outrage is much more clickable than

28:43

then compromised or yeah and and that's

28:46

that's so interesting I think and I hope

28:49

that we will see a counter reaction

28:53

I mean we're starting to see it but but

28:55

I hope that we could actually change the

28:58

algorithms going forward because it's I

29:01

mean it's becoming really really

29:02

dangerous when you start talking

29:04

politics and yeah it's very toxic so it

29:08

needs to change yeah but but for if

29:10

we're coming back to the food and you

29:12

and and we have evolved to do different

29:16

things I think some people were hunters

29:18

and some people were you know at home

29:20

picking the berries and the nuts and

29:22

whatever and and it would be logical

29:24

that people have different different

29:27

food is good for different people to

29:29

some extent I would imagine like you

29:32

know meat is probably not good for

29:33

somebody but might be for somebody else

29:34

it seems

29:35

that way but I'm not sure that you are

29:37

the pro so now that I have you here I'm

29:39

obviously an amateur in this area what

29:42

what do you think what's what's your

29:43

food philosophy

29:45

well I'm gathering knowledge as much as

29:48

I can with all the people I have found

29:52

to be really dedicated in this their

29:55

specific areas and I think what

29:58

basically it comes down to is the

30:01

ancestral view that we should eat the

30:04

way we are built to eat talking about

30:09

that the body on the brain hasn't

30:11

changed much in the last 40,000 years

30:14

and to put it super simple it's like we

30:19

should eat mostly I mean first of all we

30:21

should eat real food not too much and

30:24

mostly greens that's the seven words

30:28

that's like defining the simple

30:31

simpleness of it so we we are made to

30:34

eat both green and meat and and that's

30:40

sort of unbearable facts but we

30:44

shouldn't eat the amount of meat that

30:48

we're consuming today we should not be

30:50

afraid of animal fat or saturated fat

30:54

there are quite a few studies there

30:57

that's saying this is complete

31:01

and there's so much the problem with

31:03

research is that you can basically prove

31:07

anything that you want to prove if you

31:09

just they're so different mechanics that

31:12

you can use in a study the only one that

31:15

you can basically trust is a randomized

31:17

control study and where you have like

31:19

one group getting this the other group

31:21

getting that and it's a completely

31:24

completely controlled environment which

31:27

is very difficult if you want to do a

31:28

food study where you have to control

31:32

every overtime overtime and unethical

31:34

yes well it could be it could be it

31:37

could be so most of the studies that are

31:40

being cited in the media are big

31:44

population studies epidemiological

31:47

studies or observational studies and

31:51

it's like they're you cannot be sure

31:54

that one thing is creating the other but

31:56

obviously if I'm a food corporation I

31:58

can were or a magazine or somebody who

32:03

wants to sell something I can get a

32:05

clickable headline from from a study and

32:08

then I'm gonna push it I heard this guy

32:10

Sean Baker I bet you familiar with that

32:13

right he only eats meat nothing else

32:15

yeah it was kind of crazy diet but he he

32:18

seems very strong he has like six World

32:20

Records or something but anyway he he's

32:24

a proponent of that then obviously

32:25

carnivore diet yeah he said that well

32:28

it's there's a correlation between meat

32:30

and and I think it was cancer or

32:32

something and he said that well but yeah

32:34

there's also correlation between meats

32:36

and you know it seems that the opinion

32:38

among people is that meat is bad there's

32:41

also a correlation between eat meat

32:42

eaters and and high consumption of

32:44

alcohol you know smoking and other

32:48

things that are actually the the cult

32:50

causing the cancer yeah so and I guess

32:53

that's true for so there's so difficult

32:56

to do a study but you don't get that

32:57

kind of effect you know and that's I

33:00

listened to a podcast yesterday actually

33:02

where there's a woman who's done her PhD

33:05

just in the way saturated fat is

33:10

affecting our body and how the studies

33:12

have been done to reach that conclusion

33:15

that saturated fat should be bad which

33:18

was a big I mean has been a big thing

33:21

since 1977 basically and and which is

33:26

now changing but like you say most

33:29

that's what they don't get into the

33:32

studies it's the quality of the meat and

33:34

the quality of the food that you're

33:36

eating because you can get kind of both

33:38

burger meat and a grass-fed beef or both

33:41

meat but if you're the burger guy you're

33:45

probably gonna get a lot of other side

33:49

products and I haven't very unhealthy

33:51

living that's going to affect the

33:53

results of your

33:55

got by out our like the bacteria in your

33:59

stomach and yes what do you think about

34:01

wheat and milk products well quite

34:06

simply I think the wheat that we get in

34:10

in the world today it has been tampered

34:15

with so much so it doesn't reflect we

34:18

have the ancestral grains there are

34:20

seven ancestral grains that have been I

34:22

mean living on this world for for a long

34:25

time and I haven't been changed those

34:27

are but by nature gluten-free or doesn't

34:32

affect your if your gluten in sensitive

34:35

you can still eat many of these but the

34:37

the wheat that we have today is so

34:39

modified and that it's it's not suitable

34:43

for our body so I try to avoid it I

34:46

think most people should avoid it but

34:50

there are there's so many other grains

34:51

that you can use so why why I use meat a

34:54

wheat that's yeah the motor of milk milk

35:01

difficult because it's do you have to

35:04

see where you're from also in in

35:06

Scandinavia we have a better tolerance

35:08

for milk if you go to Africa that's a

35:10

completely different story they don't

35:11

have the the ability to break down the

35:14

make between like like we do first of

35:17

all I'm not a nutritionist just to make

35:19

that short but but so this is my my fan

35:22

of food I'm a big big big fan of food so

35:24

and I can eat dairy products and I'm

35:31

constantly doing different tests on my

35:34

body to see how I react to it and but I

35:37

try not to do eat and too much of it

35:40

because I we're not we're not

35:41

constructed to drink cow milk that's

35:45

that's not the way we're built but we

35:48

can do in limited amounts but I think we

35:50

should never push the system to with

35:54

products aren't natural to us

35:56

I think things happen over time right

35:58

and it's in I think it's also very

36:01

important to understand the levels and

36:04

how much of something that you consume

36:05

so a little bit of

36:07

something I mean having a cookie once

36:09

every five weeks won't hurt you if you

36:12

go back to the dairy product it's also

36:15

if you have the dairy that comes

36:17

straight from a farm that's one thing

36:19

that's going to be not be negative but

36:23

then it's been processed it's been

36:24

pasteurized for magenta sized home.we

36:27

any Sierra I don't know that's a

36:29

different product and if you can eat the

36:33

raw products it's going to be much

36:35

better for your body but I also agree

36:37

and having a few of these things

36:40

sometimes isn't bad for you and I really

36:43

find not to be super black-and-white

36:48

about food I think we should enjoy food

36:51

as much as possible but basically look

36:53

at food real food not the processed or

36:57

ultra-processed versions where you also

36:59

have a lot of sugar and that's when the

37:01

problem starts yeah so I I think I'm

37:04

close to your philosophy then because I

37:06

eat all kinds of things but I really try

37:08

to eat good quality of everything and

37:10

it's close to the original you know

37:12

nature product is possible so how do you

37:17

when you choose your products for and

37:19

when you source your products for for

37:20

part is it how do you go about that to

37:23

achieve that level of quality you

37:25

actually have because you have fantastic

37:26

quality product first of all I have

37:29

amazing employees that help me with this

37:32

for example Joe who who's the head of

37:35

purchasing he has I'm in the background

37:38

ten years of Whole Foods in in Canada so

37:41

he's ultra expert even yeah at least as

37:45

nerdy as I am with this and then we have

37:48

beer on who is also from Iike he's an

37:52

engineer in the beginning he's been

37:54

working for echolalia Holmen which is

37:56

the best store in in Sweden I were in

38:00

Stockholm at least for fresh goods for

38:03

sure and he was in charge of that so I

38:05

have really really good people who

38:08

helped me set up the assortment but

38:12

basically we look at a couple of

38:14

different parameters first we see I mean

38:17

if it's an organic product and it's from

38:20

a sort of

38:22

producer that we know as delivers to two

38:27

other stores that we think are have a

38:31

good quality standard then we can take

38:33

them into the system quite easily if

38:35

it's a natural product that means it's

38:41

it doesn't have an organic certification

38:44

but it doesn't contain any additives

38:46

that we don't allow we have to be more

38:50

careful of how the companies run how are

38:55

they may be treating animals or how are

38:58

there they're feeding their employees

39:00

and and so then we need to be much more

39:04

thorough in our investigation so that's

39:09

that's the sort of main criteria and we

39:12

try to visit the suppliers as much as we

39:17

can meet them in fairs or or stuff like

39:21

so we have quite a good personal

39:22

relationship with a few quite a few of

39:24

them yeah that's nice yeah so and you

39:27

have this I know you have something

39:28

called the Black List yeah all things

39:31

explain what is so um when I started

39:36

parties it I I thought I need to make it

39:39

simple for the customers to know that

39:42

we're we're doing the difficult job for

39:44

them so I looked at all different

39:48

concepts in the world where they have

39:51

decided like okay these additives or

39:55

these ingredients or these products are

39:57

not allowed and I took a few of them

40:00

merged it together and then I talked

40:02

with active Elora here in Sweden who are

40:04

really experts in additives and and in

40:09

the food industry and then we put

40:11

together our own blacklist it's 200

40:14

additives ingredients and products that

40:16

we never ever allow inside our store and

40:21

the basic concept is as a customer you

40:25

know this is something I can trust you

40:29

don't need to turn over every product

40:31

and look on the back side because it's

40:32

already been screened by experts

40:34

and so it saves time it builds trust and

40:37

it also when we when we select a

40:39

supplier we just send them the blacklist

40:42

and say okay make sure that you don't

40:44

have any of these ingredients in your

40:46

products because if you do and you

40:48

haven't told us or your listing another

40:50

product that contains any of this you go

40:53

out boom people today we're so busy and

40:57

and our ma our brains have not changed

40:59

for 40,000 years as you say we are

41:02

cognitively completely overloaded yeah

41:05

we're way over capacity so I think that

41:09

type of business where you just help

41:11

people do not have to think and I was do

41:14

not have to do the work it's amazing in

41:18

every category basically but you're

41:20

doing it in a category that people

41:21

consume every day yeah all the time

41:24

that's when it starts to have real

41:27

impact and and what I mean the next

41:32

level for us is that we're gonna take

41:36

the we have now 70 products of our own

41:39

and with the brand every day by pave-set

41:42

so these are my private label products

41:46

and they are selling really really well

41:49

in our source and we have had quite a

41:51

lot of interest from other stores to

41:53

sell them we are from mid-may and we're

41:58

gonna start selling them selling them in

41:59

one of the large pharmacies in Sweden

42:02

and we will hopefully probably start

42:07

selling also in some of the big grocery

42:11

chains because that I think will be the

42:13

way I can expand the party's brand and

42:17

the impact because even though I wanna

42:20

build a grocery chain and expand

42:25

nationally I mean this takes millions

42:28

and millions and millions and and takes

42:30

a lot of time so I've come to the

42:32

conclusion that maybe I should stop

42:34

expanding my stores now and focus on

42:37

expanding my brand well you can't just

42:39

yet because you don't have a store here

42:40

in Roma yeah

42:41

no no we have the online sales so you

42:45

could regard that was my next question

42:47

how does you do sell online yes we do

42:50

but we haven't pushed it marketing wise

42:53

yet because it's a super difficult

42:56

operation apparently I mean it's strange

43:01

to say 2019 but we have had technical

43:04

difficulties with the system because you

43:08

need to integrate your ERP system with

43:11

the online and the picking system and

43:15

[Music]

43:16

sadly this takes a lot of time to get it

43:19

right but we're almost there now so it

43:21

works you can order everything but I'm

43:23

not I'm not really happy with the

43:24

quality with the way it has been but now

43:27

now where I'd say a week or two away

43:30

from from having a system that's good

43:32

enough to really push and with quality

43:34

you mean of like the time it takes from

43:38

when you select a product until it's you

43:43

can put it in the shopping barge ya know

43:46

and also like another problem that we've

43:49

had is like in the if we say in the ERP

43:53

system that a product is out of the

43:55

assortment it still shows online so it's

43:58

like crazy so but all these things

44:01

should be fixed by now so you can

44:04

actually shop online and try it I do it

44:06

all the time right and it works really

44:08

well for for me we will start today

44:10

perfect where do you think retail is

44:12

going because there's a lot of talk

44:14

about the death of retail at the same

44:18

time I know that all the grocery chains

44:20

they're doing better many of them are

44:22

doing better than ever and what do you

44:27

how do you think people will shop in

44:29

five years when it comes to grocery

44:32

shopping I think online will grow

44:35

exponentially the next couple of years

44:38

it's so amazing once you get started but

44:44

then you also have so I think we're

44:47

going to see a hybrid where you have the

44:49

fresh goods are going to be more in I

44:52

mean stores focused only on fresh and

44:54

then the pantry part

44:55

like a toilet paper and and the flower

44:58

that's something you buy online because

45:00

it's heavy to carry and it's just it's

45:03

shelf stable you can just send it so

45:07

more focused on on smaller fresh stores

45:12

that really stalk the best avocados and

45:15

you can go and try products also kind of

45:19

delis but then with an online addition

45:24

to it that's what I think is going to

45:26

come and you can see it in in Asia where

45:30

where they have quite a few with super

45:34

rapid delivery so you can get a half an

45:36

hour after you order you get everything

45:38

sent home to you and you can pick the

45:41

fresh goods or they pick it for you but

45:44

it's yeah it's super quick and many more

45:47

local small stores in in bigger areas so

45:51

but we're still talking about this in in

45:53

the urban areas in the since Sweden is

45:56

such a large country with a lot of small

46:01

places I think we're gonna see have the

46:04

the old structure for a long time

46:06

outside of like bigger cities it seems

46:08

that the old model of having everything

46:10

in one store like having the fresh goods

46:13

having the frozen goods having that you

46:14

know in dry goods is practical when you

46:18

have to move yourself physically to that

46:19

place because it's all in one place

46:21

yeah but if you order online that makes

46:24

no sense and even today you see that

46:25

completely like Deir Attiya for example

46:27

it with only dry goods and this is just

46:30

amazing to buy from there you know like

46:32

that stuff it's super fast deliveries

46:34

good prices everything and that makes

46:36

sense because that's one type of

46:38

logistics and then you have another type

46:40

of logistics that you know you are doing

46:42

and you know and you have a third type

46:44

of logistics which is frozen yeah and

46:46

and that's that would make sense to me

46:50

that that would you know we shift into

46:53

three different yeah no I think frozen

46:56

is gonna grow much bigger as well

46:57

because you can from a nutritional

46:59

standpoint get super fresh food it's

47:03

only like day three you when you have

47:08

a product in the store and after three

47:10

days fruit and vegetables are gonna the

47:12

nutrients are going down because it's

47:14

dead basically but if you're frozen it

47:18

stays the same so also it's convenient

47:22

but we're in Scandinavia aren't too used

47:25

to to use frozen food for ourselves it's

47:28

a bit lower quality in our perception

47:30

but then you have Picard and others

47:32

changing that way of looking so I think

47:36

that will come stronger but it's going

47:39

to take time I spoke to the people at my

47:41

caucus they told me that they have sae

47:44

and super fruits yeah yeah and they told

47:50

me that they harvest and then they

47:52

freeze it within like I don't remember

47:56

if it was three hours or something yeah

47:57

super fast super fast and then they then

48:00

you put it in your smoothie still frozen

48:02

and then you retain all the nutrients

48:04

but that's an interesting case because I

48:06

know my caucus pretty well and we've

48:09

sold it since I guess since they Sam we

48:11

we start at least and they are frozen

48:15

and but for them to expand they need to

48:19

go to killed because the difficult part

48:24

as a customer is you need to think oh if

48:26

if I'm making a smoothie I can use the

48:28

frozen but if I want to make an acai

48:30

bowl and just do it right now I would

48:34

have a tetra pack and or something like

48:37

this a chilled product I can just pour

48:39

into my bowl and add some granola or

48:42

whatever I want so that's the way for

48:45

for them to grow I would say or start

48:49

watering other products what do you

48:51

think is going to be the greatest

48:53

challenge for the retailers in the food

48:56

industry the the next few years I think

49:00

I mean on the online is going to be a

49:02

big big challenge for the big ones like

49:05

IKEA and especially because they have

49:08

their own

49:10

the franchise system where and then you

49:13

have so many small owners it's not

49:16

centralized so you cannot say like this

49:18

is the way we're going to do it because

49:19

it's going to take profit away from the

49:21

store owned store operated owners so

49:27

they have some difficulties they will

49:29

have difficulties

49:30

I think coop is actually doing a pretty

49:33

good job now then you CEO is is good and

49:36

mortem is really growing and they got a

49:40

lot of money from from genefique and a

49:43

lot of expertise from cinavia as well so

49:45

I think you'll see they're going to be

49:49

big challengers to the traditional model

49:51

but then again I hope that if Iike I

49:56

mean they have so much money and they

49:58

have so many skilled people I hope that

50:01

the whole industry could maybe start

50:03

thinking about ok how could we transform

50:06

to become a modern alternative but yeah

50:09

my hopes aren't too big yeah but that's

50:11

also your opportunity right for sure but

50:14

if I'm talking volume the amount of

50:19

money you need to do an impact this I

50:22

have to do guerilla style changes all

50:25

the time

50:26

because I'm so small and I mean we're

50:30

talking fly versus a giant but we all

50:35

know who won David or Goliath I think

50:39

the biggest take Elon Musk for example

50:41

the biggest impact Tesla has made so far

50:44

hasn't been their own cars it's been

50:49

that they have transformed an industry

50:51

yeah and you and and and when I when I

50:54

hear your values and the conversation

50:56

that we've had so far I think it's

50:59

amazing that you actually your very

51:02

values driven and not so much driven by

51:06

the financial part which can all then

51:09

become a great opportunity if you look

51:11

at the outcome of creating impact rather

51:16

than the outcome of having many stores

51:18

yeah no for sure and so just to be clear

51:21

I'm not sitting on my ass and saying

51:23

like okay

51:23

I'm not gonna try to beat the big

51:28

guys I'm just saying okay how can I

51:30

regroup we think an attack from a

51:33

different angle and that's what I'm

51:34

doing and I'm creating new force its new

51:37

new attack squads so that's I mean that

51:41

the podcast is one way I have another

51:44

company that when the time this goes

51:47

live I probably have launched it it's

51:49

called super plant by Monday so by

51:52

Monday okay yeah okay almost almost but

51:56

super plant dot se we're gonna sell only

52:00

hemp-based products really so CBD oils

52:03

and looking for a new CBD supply yeah

52:05

and obviously the way I work I've been

52:09

trying them all and I found the best

52:13

best best or the best in the US you guys

52:15

you have to stay for an hour after yeah

52:18

sure sure and then I mean hemp-based

52:20

products without CBD because I think

52:22

hemp is such an amazing super plant and

52:26

that's why the name of the company and

52:28

then we're actually launching another

52:31

super-fun project together with our

52:34

investors blue I cannot talk about that

52:37

then and I will talk about it later so

52:39

um there's a lot of things happening we

52:43

have actually had two more things going

52:45

on that are being transformative for

52:48

party set and where we can really really

52:52

scale up operations and have an impact

52:54

so I that's the way I work I always try

52:59

to find how can I change and get a

53:03

perceived weakness into an opportunity

53:06

and then use the underdog position to

53:09

strike where it hurts the most

53:12

yeah this is almost like this sounds

53:14

almost like the only way yeah you could

53:17

say and I I think the only people are

53:19

amazing and what they're doing is really

53:23

transforming the dairy industry and and

53:26

they bring a lot of fantastic new ideas

53:31

for entrepreneurs in Sweden

53:32

yeah we've had the promise from Tony

53:34

that it's gonna come on here the CEO

53:36

yeah

53:37

yeah he's gonna be here in my podcast in

53:40

the fall as well I was down meeting him

53:42

in Madison an amazing person so you'll

53:44

have all you'll have the Swedish version

53:45

of our podcast and the other way around

53:47

yeah well no the Entrepreneurship is

53:49

just a small part yeah so mainly what I

53:54

focus on in my podcast is like also be

53:57

the experts in different areas more like

53:59

could be super nerdy researchers when we

54:02

just talk about sleep or just talk about

54:04

CBD or

54:06

writing whatever so because I think

54:09

that's so much part of my passion to

54:11

understand more about health

54:13

sustainability and yeah you're one of my

54:16

I have a select list of podcasts you

54:19

can't listen to too many there's just

54:20

not enough time but you're on my list

54:21

now because I've listened to one episode

54:24

so far and I really like it so so that's

54:26

a shout out to your podcast as it what's

54:29

the name of your podcast vagon mood

54:31

party set right for all the Swedish

54:33

listeners I'm a very humble person so

54:41

one part of this entire initiative with

54:44

what's in the water is about educating

54:46

entrepreneurs and giving them advice

54:50

from other entrepreneurs what would you

54:52

say if you said one two three four five

54:55

different things that you've like this

54:58

transformed my life thank you so

55:02

much life for giving me this lesson what

55:07

would that be well first I would then

55:11

thank you Andrew sangeun and the old

55:14

little guys the other like old farts

55:18

that inspired me I said I will never

55:21

ever work for any prestige old old man

55:26

again and then so that they sent me on

55:29

my journey to entrepreneurship so thank

55:31

you wasn't it Bjorn drupes again that

55:33

also got stuck at a men's club the I

55:38

think was a striptease club yeah and

55:40

here strip club yeah and he took the

55:43

fall for another very famous politician

55:46

which I will not name but if you can see

55:50

how his political career gained from it

55:53

you can assume there was somebody above

55:55

him so um Wow this just became like this

56:00

is gonna be tomorrow in optimal order

56:02

then we're gonna be huge

56:02

thank you I think most people no no I

56:05

mean in in the industry they they

56:09

probably know about it but I don't want

56:11

to spend any any time on that man

56:13

anymore so this is thanks to those guys

56:16

and the other I think the the thing that

56:21

really taught me a lesson was my first

56:25

company proactive health where I gave

56:30

away too much shares too easy for

56:34

somebody who I thought would help me

56:35

sort of really take the company to the

56:37

next level and they actually didn't

56:40

contribute in even near to what I

56:43

thought so that was big big big mistakes

56:46

keep your percentages to yourself and

56:48

really be careful with giving out your

56:51

ownership and the third example were

56:56

lesson that I've learned is it takes way

57:01

more time than you think so if you when

57:04

you do your sort of prognosis you can

57:07

have you can always have two one that

57:09

you show the investors but know that the

57:12

it's gonna take at least twice as long

57:14

as you think it's like fixing up a house

57:16

yeah exactly exactly and you so that

57:21

that's something that you need to know

57:23

and if they no but it's a good also not

57:25

to know that because if I would have

57:27

known how hard it would be to build a

57:31

company I would never have started ya

57:33

know know for sure that there's a beauty

57:35

of of not knowing the fourth thing I

57:38

would say is that it you need to

57:41

celebrate all the little victories that

57:44

you that you make because when you start

57:47

you have these long-term goals and I've

57:50

been so focused on like okay so when I

57:53

open my first store that was amazing

57:55

that was truly amazing

57:57

it was like having people being able to

58:00

walk in inside your dream but then the

58:04

second store which I was like really

58:06

looking forward to was almost like you

58:09

were so caught up in everything and so I

58:11

opened the second story I was already

58:13

planning the third store and and I'm so

58:16

far ahead in my in my head there you

58:20

don't stop and and celebrate the

58:23

everyday victories so that's something

58:25

I'm trying to become better at the fifth

58:27

lesson is really to take care of your

58:31

health because as an entrepreneur you're

58:34

gonna be under a lot of stress and you

58:37

need to take care of your sleep your

58:40

food and your training and really make

58:43

it like meetings that you cannot I mean

58:48

if it's a meeting with an investor

58:49

you're gonna go if it's a if you're

58:51

gonna fly to malama you're not gonna

58:54

skip going to the airport it has to be

58:57

the same thing when you say I'm gonna go

58:58

to the gym or I'm gonna go out running

59:00

it's something you just got to do

59:01

because that's gonna help you perform as

59:04

a as an entrepreneur

59:06

Walter actually is part of transforming

59:09

my life with the concept short-term

59:13

training which i think is amazing Walter

59:17

can you share just that because I think

59:19

it's it's transformative for me that I

59:22

always had this long-term and goals for

59:26

my exercise and fitness with which I

59:30

never reach because they become too big

59:34

so I let go

59:37

Walter just shifted the entire frame for

59:40

me I have a very simple system in place

59:43

and I think a lot of people are

59:45

long-term in their thinking when it

59:46

comes to training like you know I don't

59:48

look a certain way or I want to lose

59:50

this many kilos or whatever but I think

59:52

that if you do it's short-term you you

59:55

work out in the morning for one and then

59:57

you do it only to feel good that day

59:59

that's it

60:00

and that's why else why you do it in the

60:03

morning because otherwise till you get

60:05

at this short little period at night but

60:06

if you're working in the morning and you

60:08

feel great the entire day and

60:09

that's the only thing you work out for

60:11

ya know but I don't think it's a very

60:14

important discussion because so many

60:17

people think they need to do so much to

60:21

improve their health and basically I'm

60:25

more for the power way of a 15 minute

60:28

thing a day but then you have okay so

60:31

what do I do with the hour with the

60:34

other 15 hours and 45 minutes of the day

60:37

because if you look at the research it

60:41

that's the most important part what do I

60:43

do during the whole day do I sit on my

60:45

ass working then the the hour or the 15

60:49

minutes or whatever it doesn't really I

60:51

mean it it doesn't help that much you

60:53

need to rather do five minutes every

60:57

hour of something just doing some

61:00

push-ups walking around take your calls

61:04

outside when you're when you're walking

61:07

that has a much bigger health impact

61:10

although you might not look as good as

61:12

on the beach as if you do bench press

61:15

like for three hours a week so I think

61:20

you need to think of from a performance

61:23

and health perspective it's little

61:26

things that you do often that's going to

61:27

have the biggest reward on your health

61:29

and that's actually very easy to do so

61:33

just gather your phone calls and and do

61:36

and between 3:00 and 4:00 in the

61:38

afternoon and then you just take your

61:40

phone go outside and walk and talk and

61:42

that's pretty amazing super simple thing

61:45

to do

61:45

yeah but then going back to the tips for

61:50

the entrepreneurs because I have one

61:51

more thing that's I think more important

61:54

than all of the other combined and

61:56

that's like you are going to suffer some

62:02

kind of major crisis in your

62:04

entrepreneurship career for sure and the

62:08

way you handle this is going to be

62:10

paramount for your continued development

62:12

as a person and also for your company

62:16

and I think for your family so that's

62:18

that's for example for from

62:23

me I mean starting parties it obviously

62:26

you you have a an amount of money you

62:30

have a bag of money and it's gonna run

62:31

out since the first couple of years you

62:33

lose money by definition every time you

62:37

come close to when when you don't have

62:39

enough money to pay the salaries it's

62:41

pretty pretty horrible but I had one one

62:47

experience like that that I really

62:48

really I was super close to bankruptcy

62:52

and when you are in that position you

62:58

feel so terrible so alone and so weak

63:03

and pissed off and all the negative

63:08

things that you can think of suffering

63:11

like crazy and you do not wish your any

63:14

any enemy or anyone to be in that

63:16

position but you realize okay either I

63:18

can lay down and die or I can get up and

63:21

I can fight and try to find a way out of

63:25

this and the last thing that was

63:28

happening and during the the summer time

63:31

just that like the money ran out

63:33

basically on or I I found out it instead

63:37

of getting to big investments that we

63:39

thought that was gonna close like just

63:42

before midsummer both of them failed and

63:47

I was stuck with zero money going into

63:51

the summer time and it's a pretty

63:55

disgusting feeling because you I was

63:57

going with my family to Portugal and

63:59

hang out and I thought I was gonna have

64:01

a great time and the first ten days I

64:03

needed to get 10 million into the

64:06

account and everybody in the financial

64:09

market also go on summer break and that

64:14

that time I managed somehow I managed to

64:18

close a deal and get the money and I

64:21

felt terrible before and afterwards I

64:23

felt terrible for quite a while but now

64:26

it's sort of one of the biggest

64:28

learnings that I've had my ego came in

64:33

the way we had grown the company the

64:36

value

64:37

of the company and we have had quite a

64:40

few big successes and sometimes that can

64:44

actually you you you need to realize

64:50

that the value of the company is never

64:53

as strong as if you don't have a

64:56

profitable foundation then you're very

64:59

vulnerable so just a smallest change can

65:02

really kill your company so I took a vow

65:06

for myself or for the company as well to

65:09

now always focus on becoming profitable

65:12

as soon as possible because then you can

65:17

fight any other like external threats

65:20

and that's why I got my my latest tattoo

65:23

on my arm what is the latest one nice

65:26

carp yeah it's two koi fishes and koi

65:30

fish and so one one is black swimming

65:33

upstream in you know waterfall so it's

65:40

constantly fighting really really hard

65:42

and in the Chinese and Japanese

65:44

mythology it transforms into a dragon

65:46

when it comes up so the fight really

65:49

really hard and and you're gonna make it

65:51

and then when the other one going down

65:53

is in in red but it's red and orange is

65:56

gold gold representative you can't have

65:59

two golden in the olden days oh and that

66:02

means like hard work will pay off that's

66:05

basically and it's also like a yin-yang

66:08

thing so make sure we take a picture of

66:11

your arm for yeah for the Instagram and

66:13

also your tattoo yeah I have a logo on

66:16

my forearm which I decided before I open

66:20

my first store I said when I opened my

66:23

third store

66:24

I will tattoo the logo on my arm just so

66:28

all the investors that kept asking so

66:30

okay how how long again this for and and

66:33

I said I'm in it for life and and after

66:36

I got the tattoo I can just say well

66:38

this days this days for life and that's

66:40

how long I'm I'm in it for it even has

66:42

this little registered trademark yeah

66:46

what do you think about Sweden and the

66:49

climate in Sweden for entrepreneur

66:51

is there anything we could do better do

66:53

you think from the politicians point of

66:54

view or from governor and so basically

66:56

one of the biggest problems always

66:57

capital how can i I mean the point from

67:01

zero to something and and then something

67:05

to bigger you're gonna be and have a

67:09

capital capital restraint and I think

67:11

making it easier for for entrepreneurs

67:15

to be able to have some seed financing

67:19

would be important I think I've been

67:22

super super grateful for illumi sorting

67:29

my brain just died

67:30

the Army has helped me a lot in the

67:32

beginning they gave me some some loans

67:34

but the rent is super high but it was

67:38

very helpful when nobody else or the

67:40

banks or anybody else wanted to see my

67:42

government government initiative where

67:44

you get to loan money at a high risk and

67:47

a high rate but we need more there's

67:51

also V Nova but that's almost like crazy

67:54

because they only give you money if

67:56

you're 99% certain of gonna failure so

68:00

only managed to get money there once and

68:02

then I had to the the three times I

68:04

applied first I'm so used to pitch for

68:06

investors so you of course have a story

68:10

that and this sounds good sounds good

68:12

and it has a chance of success and

68:14

that's why I didn't get any money from

68:16

the Nova and the last time I was coached

68:18

by a nova coach and you have to say that

68:20

you're probably not going to make it and

68:21

and that's when I got it that makes no

68:25

no so stupid yeah talking about

68:28

incentives and it's a lot of money that

68:30

they're giving out every year to

68:31

projects their beliefs aren't going to

68:34

ya succeed so so easier access to

68:38

capital and and less well I'm not sure

68:42

about the legislation and like legal

68:45

restraints because I don't think it's

68:46

very complicated but maybe it's because

68:49

I don't give a now I think we what

68:52

we've heard from before is the things it

68:55

maybe doesn't apply to you is more when

68:57

you have option programs and how they

68:59

are taxed and how you can compete to

69:01

bring talent in from the US for example

69:03

where there have a different

69:04

nope option PO that kind of thing has

69:07

been a little bit of a theme but I guess

69:10

you don't have that well actually there

69:13

was an option they changed the option

69:15

program system a couple years ago but

69:18

you had to have less than 80 million in

69:21

revenue and we're above that so we

69:24

couldn't use it so but I was a brilliant

69:26

concept where you could actually give

69:28

the options for free and it was super

69:30

simple to handle so something has

69:33

happened in that area as well so if we

69:34

have politicians listening now you can

69:36

you can say you now you have the yeah

69:39

the lamp of aladdhin here and you can

69:42

just make a wish and it will come true

69:44

what would that be it would probably be

69:46

to try I mean the inherent problem in

69:51

politics is that you have the four-year

69:53

cycle so you cannot do anything that's

69:55

too daring because you know you're not

69:58

going to be reelected so it would

70:01

probably be like to skip the four-year

70:06

mentality and actually look for a long

70:08

term change that could have a long-term

70:11

impact but they had to do it now and not

70:14

to focus on under the super short

70:18

near-term consequences but it's the

70:20

system is flawed and that's why I don't

70:22

really care for politicians i I think

70:26

entrepreneurs and the people are going

70:28

to change the world and the politicians

70:30

will follow but they will never lead so

70:34

that's why I try to bring all my

70:37

entrepreneur friends and get to know as

70:39

many good entrepreneurs as possible and

70:41

then build a big network of these people

70:44

and also the big corporations I think we

70:46

can use but you have to know use another

70:48

tactic there where I think you can use

70:52

their egos and and and also the money in

70:56

order to get them in line but I think

70:58

it's entrepreneurs and the people that

71:00

will lead the way that is a fantastic

71:02

ending to this podcast thank you so much

71:05

for coming thank you for having me

71:09

thank you for listening to what's in the

71:11

water

71:12

our ultimate goal with this podcast is

71:15

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71:17

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71:20

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71:22

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71:27

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71:59

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72:01

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72:04

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72:06

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72:09

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72:11

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72:14

[Music]

72:17

you