You Invested In What?! With Backing Minds' Sara Wimmercranz

Sara Wimmercranz

Sara Wimmercranz is one half of the Venture Capital duo Backing Minds, a fund investing where most people wouldn't even consider looking. The result? Well – the success and fame of Backing Minds speaks for itself. Backing Minds is again a great example of where doing good for the world and creating massive economic returns are not in conflict, but but in fact mutually beneficial. We also talk about Sara's entrepreneurial roots in Småland (like the famous Ingvar Kamprad), entrepreneurial politics, and not least, that time when Sara stocked a truck full of cash to go shopping shoes in Europe.

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Transcript

Note: This is an auto-generated transcript that will butcher words and names sometimes (Our favorite is when our guest Johannes Cullberg became “Your Hummus Cool Bye”). The format is not optimized for reading, but for searching for specific segments. Hence the timestamps etc. Happy searching!

00:01

[Music]

00:05

welcome back to a brand new episode of

00:08

what's in the water I am Walter Naeslund

00:11

and I am Johan Åberg and this episode

00:15

is not recorded in our usual studio in

00:18

my house but in a secret hotel room at a

00:22

secret hotel in the heart of Stockholm

00:25

the sparrow hotel it sounds like

00:29

something out of a spy novel doesn't it

00:31

John yeah and it kind of feels like that

00:34

the hotel as well I know it's kind of

00:36

cool but in this hotel room

00:38

we will meet a very special guest that

00:41

we brought here today Sarah

00:43

Wimmercranz Sara's an amazing woman

00:46

she's been an entrepreneur and currently

00:47

she is an investor with Suzanne Yaffe in

00:52

their company backing minds yeah and for

00:55

example one of their best investments is

00:57

a company founded by immigrants from

00:59

Somalia in an area outside of blue which

01:03

is not the area you would look for a

01:05

billion dollar company but it's doing

01:08

super well and that also creates role

01:10

models in these areas that are not as

01:12

common there which i think is just an

01:14

amazing effect just besides the effect

01:16

that it creates great investments for

01:18

the fund forget to not remember those

01:21

remember to not what we're trying to say

01:26

is that we want you to subscribe to this

01:28

podcast because that's important it's

01:30

very important to subscribe right John

01:32

yeah yeah it's very important because

01:34

we're on a mission to supercharge

01:37

entrepreneurship in Scandinavia and the

01:40

rest of the world join us in this

01:42

initiative yes and we bring you Sarah

01:45

Democrats

01:46

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01:52

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02:00

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02:09

you look amazing where you sit there

02:11

like a little we liked it you know we

02:16

should have these headsets like in Super

02:18

Bowl oh yeah that that would be nice so

02:20

should we do the same thing we always do

02:22

is spend the first half hour to talk

02:24

about how you pronounce your name in

02:25

English yeah or in German Wimmer

02:30

Krantz women yeah I think it's Wimmer

02:33

Krantz Wimmer trans yeah I don't know

02:36

so this is Sarah Wimmer crap but

02:39

actually I just recorded a pun last week

02:42

and we actually spent minutes talking

02:44

about yeah and then you have to remember

02:48

it was a German who moved here in 1610

02:51

and he had this German name say who

02:53

really wanted to become a sweet and

02:55

chose oh isn't that like the funnest

02:58

thing you've heard because it sounds

02:59

everyone thinks I'm a German I'm like

03:01

who did bad job in 6000 yeah we must cut

03:06

it was invisible so he was like oh sweet

03:09

so you're this famous investor now you

03:15

can't say that to get some small anta

03:17

like what was your early story before

03:20

that what happened before I know you you

03:22

are famous super famous investor now and

03:24

then before that you were super

03:27

ecommerce entrepreneur and what happened

03:30

before that what happened before that so

03:33

I think I've always been an entrepreneur

03:35

but I didn't realize it when I was

03:37

younger so when I was a kid I started

03:39

several different companies I sold

03:42

everything I could settle and I just

03:44

made small businesses out of nothing but

03:48

that's not a super skill in small um I

03:50

mean small on has the worst soils of

03:52

Europe and we've tried to grow things

03:54

there for thousands of years which means

03:58

it's in our DNA to solve problems so

04:00

people just roll up sleeves and and

04:02

smile and work hard so that's I think

04:05

I've that's very much my you know

04:08

bringing up with my family so my first

04:10

job was actually picking stones from

04:12

farmers in the springtime because when

04:14

the frost left the grow

04:15

found the stones popped up like

04:18

mushrooms so they couldn't even use

04:19

their machinery like the tractor isn't

04:21

it sounds like that's a great job I

04:23

think I was eight years old so I took

04:25

took a little stroller and went there

04:26

and took 1 cent per stone but I ruined

04:30

them because you know I just threw the

04:32

smallest ones in the counter actually

04:34

became so rich like in half a day but

04:37

then at the lunch time they will look

04:38

like okay Sarah time out we have to you

04:40

know lower the price you're ruining us

04:42

so that was my first company I think

04:45

very small and it was that kind of the

04:47

wrong incentive than to get as many

04:49

stones as possible the small ones

04:51

exactly but you know you have to

04:52

practice that was probably my first

04:54

failure there has been many well I heard

04:58

they did that in Russia or so in the

05:00

Soviet Union that you got paid from how

05:02

many kilos of refrigerators you made am

05:05

i making super-heavy refrigerators

05:07

that's like not the best way exactly

05:12

yeah that's their own KPI especially not

05:15

when you're looking into the future I

05:16

think yeah I've heard that over and over

05:18

again when other really crazy incentive

05:21

was I think in India and they had an

05:24

incentive of really dangerous snakes

05:29

I think Cobra snakes so every cobra

05:33

snake you captured you got paid so the

05:36

problem with that was that people

05:38

thought they could be rich by capturing

05:42

a lot of cobra snakes right the only

05:44

challenge was there weren't that many so

05:46

people started breathing and bringing

05:49

Cobra snakes up so so so because of the

05:54

wrong incentive they really had a lot of

05:57

and I think I'm 90% sure it was cobra

06:00

snake canna beaten have been another

06:02

type of snake but really dangerous ones

06:04

and I think that's there's really an

06:06

important thing in entrepreneurship

06:08

putting the right incentive there so

06:11

that it creates the right thing wish we

06:14

could have a podcast just about that I'm

06:15

bringing some politicians I think and

06:17

talk about incentives yeah yeah but

06:20

small on yeah that's the hometown of

06:23

Ingmar Kamprad and IKEA it's a home

06:25

county an element is their home hometown

06:28

right over me

06:29

my company was there first now he was a

06:31

huge source of inspiration growing up

06:34

because what he's done is that he's

06:36

built you know like global leading

06:40

company but he's still like anyone else

06:44

he was his he passed away a few years

06:47

ago and that is so inspiring because he

06:50

was like everyone growing up in element

06:52

or living there just he was like the boy

06:56

next door like like everyone else he

06:58

never stepped on too high horses and

07:00

what what does that do to people yeah it

07:03

teaches them that if he can I can so he

07:07

built this amazing not only business

07:09

country because it was a town culture

07:11

everyone worked for the same company of

07:13

people just believing in themselves and

07:15

like we can do anything

07:16

and what IKEA does is I'm a part of that

07:19

like it was so like everyone celebrated

07:23

everything that I cared that as a indeed

07:24

as a as a huge team and that's the

07:27

leadership like a lot of times we talk

07:29

about ourselves and our leadership in a

07:31

little bad way like but I think that's

07:34

something I want want to bring out to

07:36

the world that kind of Swedish or

07:38

Scandinavian leadership of you know not

07:41

being the boss boss rather rather being

07:44

like part of the team and I'm working

07:47

like that I think that's a very very

07:49

cool way of leading people and that has

07:51

inspired me a lot and I met him several

07:53

times and and I remember the first time

07:55

because I knew he was my mom's boss my

07:57

mom was the first IT girl in IKEA in the

08:00

70s you could do pot with her because so

08:02

many sick things happen happen being a

08:05

woman in the seventies working idea

08:07

so as like I already had this view of

08:09

you know probably watching cartoons of

08:11

what a boss was you know we like you

08:13

working for nine Castile I don't know

08:16

his word in English on screwed Angus

08:18

Gooch that style but then he came there

08:20

and I was just a little girl he was so

08:22

curious about me he asked me all the

08:25

questions and that was my first meeting

08:27

of you know leadership and that affected

08:29

me a lot and then I also remember

08:32

another time like I went up with the

08:35

Inga camper to give an hour like a

08:37

singer flowers and afterward my my

08:41

friends were like we want to be

08:42

come her we want to become her I don't

08:43

think it was coal I don't remember

08:44

what's this 8 this superstar was like I

08:48

didn't even want to say that to them

08:49

because he had like snooze running out

08:51

from him somehow and like this wooden

08:53

really old shoes and it looked like you

08:55

know like an old man but I was like no I

08:57

want to become like him so he's been

09:00

like I think for everyone growing up in

09:03

small and there's a lot of inspiration

09:06

from this old kind of and it's not they

09:09

weren't I'm modern because they were

09:11

really really modern in a way of you

09:13

know just building scalable things from

09:16

from problems that we had so I'm really

09:19

happy about my heritage and I try to be

09:23

that leader small and leader what do you

09:25

think entrepreneurs can learn from both

09:28

small and and from Ikea leave us you'll

09:31

learn I think very much everyone says

09:34

that in my camp art is like the best

09:35

storyteller no he's not a storyteller

09:38

that was him you know he didn't tell

09:41

stories about doing things it just did

09:42

them and and inspired people by doing

09:44

things so that's one thing and also I

09:47

think that what we see now is this a lot

09:50

of entrepreneurs coming up and leaving a

09:52

very glamorous life you know a lot of

09:53

them have been in France perhaps and

09:56

then made businesses out of that and

09:58

that worries me a little bit you know

10:00

Groff is small and see what kind of job

10:02

they need there and compare that and you

10:04

know having a makeup artist in the

10:06

morning having a cameraman following you

10:08

that's like so far away of from building

10:11

companies for me like just founding foot

10:14

way we built or all our shelves

10:16

ourselves I mean we did everything

10:17

ourselves we didn't hire anyone for you

10:20

know moving from one warehouse together

10:21

we just did everything ourselves because

10:24

it it was a really want to spend too

10:26

much money and we wanted to teach

10:28

everybody that's something you can do

10:29

everything yourself so I think that's

10:31

something you can learn from that and

10:33

and also know knowing your business and

10:35

never stop asking your customers about

10:38

what they think I mean I've seen it

10:40

myself in my camp like walking around in

10:43

the stores asking customers of their

10:45

experience of different products and he

10:48

was like 85 years old and he was so

10:51

curious about their experiences and

10:54

never stop being curious I mean my first

10:57

meeting with him he just wanted to know

10:58

everything about the four-year-old Sarah

11:00

and then he just kept on being curious

11:02

and and he never you know never stopped

11:05

asking customers of what to do next and

11:08

and also bringing in employees and

11:10

asking them about their experiences of

11:12

things so it's it was not at all a top

11:15

Rhum top Brad like a tire article no not

11:19

at all which meant like everyone could

11:21

bring up ideas great ideas and see them

11:24

happening even the customers could come

11:26

in with great ideas and see them

11:28

happening so that's very very inspiring

11:30

I think this is a smaller thing not

11:34

doing everything yourself and not not

11:36

showing off and driving he always drove

11:38

an old car yeah exactly I think I think

11:41

that is a small an thing because it's

11:44

it's a wordings in the swedish that is

11:47

much too bad they give it's like

11:49

remarkable which is actually a very good

11:52

word in Swedish like it sounds like

11:54

something that is good but that's like

11:56

the worst thing you can be where I came

11:59

from if someone was remarkable that was

12:02

like he was like he didn't she couldn't

12:06

even be a part of society anymore that

12:08

was an insult

12:09

I've heard so many entrepreneurs saying

12:11

like if I Drive a nice car my customers

12:15

would think they've paid too much for my

12:17

products this is very small and I think

12:19

yeah that's very small anything like

12:21

that

12:21

I think the remarkable thing is really

12:23

interesting and it but there is a whole

12:25

generation of entrepreneurs now out

12:27

there that actually started out becoming

12:29

remarkable and then made whatever

12:31

product yeah the influencer journey

12:34

built their following and then started

12:36

launching products yeah

12:38

so it's like it's it's become very much

12:40

not small and in a way I would say so

12:42

there are basically no influencers from

12:44

small on that I mean that's a new way of

12:47

Unitas a new way of becoming an

12:49

entrepreneur as well so I don't want to

12:50

you know talk badly about it but it's

12:52

just like different I think that I

12:53

sometimes go out and talk to young

12:56

people about starting companies and I

12:57

really want to want to inspire them and

12:59

say to them it's not as as hard as you

13:01

think it's just you know if you have one

13:03

customer you have a company

13:05

but then I can something have even been

13:07

been in a panel with a unicorn founder

13:09

who gave them the suggestion to become

13:11

an infant sir first and I was like no no

13:14

no no no no you can learn the logics of

13:17

programming and that will open the world

13:20

for you that is the best thing you can

13:23

do today not try there you know becoming

13:26

your building egg followers and so no I

13:29

mean if you really want to start a cool

13:31

company that could change the world I

13:32

think it's a it's a detour to become an

13:35

influencer first I think you can just

13:37

you should just roll up your sleeves and

13:38

learn everything

13:39

learn how to analyze data from big

13:42

customer patterns to see what to do we

13:46

often talk about that there are really

13:47

three types of companies yeah there are

13:50

companies that really make the world

13:51

worse and like tobacco company gambling

13:56

companies that no real value that they

14:00

produce and there are companies that are

14:01

really neutral to the world they don't

14:03

make the world really much better or

14:05

much worse and then there are companies

14:08

that actually make the world a lot

14:12

better yeah and I and I think and I know

14:15

that you agree Walter with me that it's

14:17

really important that we breathe a new

14:20

generation of companies that really in

14:22

their DNA make the world better

14:26

yeah like that's that's just a

14:28

prerequisite like any other prerequisite

14:31

like okay we need to make money yeah we

14:33

need to make the world better yeah like

14:35

it's just a part of building yeah yeah

14:38

and it can totally go hand in hand and I

14:40

will tell you more about that talking

14:42

about backing minds later but but I

14:44

totally agree and I think also you know

14:45

because now everything is transparent

14:47

even if you want it or not the consumers

14:50

have a lot of insights that would

14:52

influence your company so if you're not

14:54

not doing the right things

14:56

customers will leave you so it's like

14:58

it's it's it's being in doing good is

15:01

because it feels good and it should be

15:03

you know it's the ethics of it all but

15:05

it's also actually bringing in business

15:06

and I see like especially now if you

15:09

look if you look at the climate crisis

15:11

and what is you know facing us here and

15:13

how quick it's been the most successful

15:15

information campaign ever if you look in

15:18

the world

15:19

it's like you know even countries that

15:20

don't even count in as democracies the

15:24

knowledge about the climate you know

15:25

change is above 95 percent within the

15:29

population and that means low K what

15:31

will happen when the consumers try and

15:34

start thinking about that and demanding

15:36

from the companies the information of

15:38

where the product come from products

15:40

come from and how they are made its it

15:43

hasn't happened yet but just you know

15:45

you work with you know you come from

15:48

that you know mean like media and

15:50

information and you know messaging

15:54

communication that is thank you so much

15:57

and and you know it first you

16:00

communicate and then you know consumers

16:02

think about it and then they act and

16:04

what we're seeing now is a shaming

16:06

culture coming up shaming each other

16:08

because they're flying shaming each

16:09

other because of having kids you know

16:12

there's just a lot of things going on

16:14

that's because politicians aren't doing

16:16

enough and that's because companies

16:18

aren't doing enough but if you look at

16:20

the pollution like the co2 emissions I

16:23

think one third of it all is actually

16:25

concrete and steel it's not people

16:29

flying if you don't mean so first they

16:32

started to shame each other which is

16:33

like a very human way of making a lot of

16:38

people just you know a line with a

16:41

change and that's like an ancient way of

16:43

doing it but that's because of lack of

16:46

leadership so I'm like building a good

16:50

company it's not only about doing good

16:53

it's about preparing for the future it's

16:57

um a spectrum though I mean shaming

16:58

shaming on the one side and celebrating

17:01

on the other and everything in between

17:03

exactly and I think what we're talking

17:05

about that people looking for companies

17:07

that are maybe lowering co2 footprint or

17:11

you know making the world better in some

17:13

way people are choosing that but they're

17:15

also choosing that because then they can

17:17

show everybody that that's what I chose

17:19

exactly so the brand becomes extremely

17:21

important very much so so it you're

17:23

totally right so shaming and branding

17:26

almost like it you know showing on the

17:28

sides of it but that's also what we

17:30

always talk about sometimes about

17:31

wearable

17:32

there are a lot of products that are not

17:35

really don't really have wearable brands

17:37

like electricity is what an example

17:39

exactly or it doesn't show on your

17:42

iPhone if you have what what carrier you

17:44

have no but if you can make those into

17:48

wearable brands somehow then you can

17:50

start using you know the spectrum of

17:53

shame and one hand and celebration on

17:55

the other and and that's how you can

17:58

kind of make people make better choices

18:00

so I think branding has a really central

18:02

part in making people make better

18:04

choices

18:04

yeah but let me through loose a new word

18:07

I think deep branding because I think

18:09

the times are over where you could just

18:11

claim things and not leaving up them and

18:13

you see technology coming now

18:16

traceability technology that we've been

18:18

looking really deep into that can make

18:20

you not only say your brand stands for

18:22

this and listen but also really really

18:24

showing with with like the evidence that

18:27

the consumers will be asking for so I

18:29

think that we can't just say things

18:31

anymore absolutely no 100% needs to be

18:33

authentic I listen to somebody talk

18:36

about political communication recently

18:37

yeah yeah and there are a few ways of

18:40

doing it one way is actually being good

18:42

yeah and then there's a whole range in

18:46

the middle that is just not viable

18:48

trying to back off from things or

18:51

defending yourself from things that then

18:52

you're dead yeah and the other

18:54

successful way of doing it is just to

18:56

deny everything when somebody calls you

19:01

out in your lied you said that's that's

19:03

can you give us an example of a person

19:05

yeah exactly

19:06

I just wait for you but he actually

19:09

introduced something that I think is

19:11

kind of interesting yeah that's the

19:14

variance in this age where we say that

19:15

everything is transparent that is

19:17

actually one of the two viable

19:19

strategies to yeah but also like if

19:22

you're talking about Donald Trump it's

19:23

like we built this rigid system of

19:25

democracy that didn't count on a person

19:28

like that throwing up right we can't

19:30

handle someone who says no like you know

19:32

being that number three birthday do you

19:34

call that person what a way of being

19:36

yeah just where you just deny everything

19:38

exactly like I think because it's like

19:40

okay okay we know as a fact that you've

19:44

did this and then you have a

19:45

denying it and in the system and the

19:46

media like all these pillars of

19:48

democracy can't really handle a person

19:50

just denying the truth right right yeah

19:52

there is a thing I think is true is that

19:54

people the person with the highest

19:57

certainty in the room will influence all

20:00

the other people you're such a quote

20:01

maker John I'm so impressed

20:03

like can you write a book no no we're

20:05

going to shop for it yeah have you I

20:09

don't have it's it's maybe you should

20:11

just I can write something home on one

20:15

hand you have you have a stay authentic

20:17

and on the other hand you have Lyon deny

20:26

you're building a brown hair it's a foot

20:31

way was yours first like super

20:32

successful company right yeah and we

20:34

were a team of founders yeah so yeah I

20:38

started food with Donald mid-back louis

20:41

lily at all and stay and Alston in 2010

20:44

yeah and it was a great journey we had

20:47

so much fun and what we did was that we

20:49

I mean we knew ecommerce and we knew we

20:52

knew how to you now look at the eighth

20:55

on what kind of products that would sell

20:57

so it was really easy for us to do like

21:00

look at different verticals with in

21:02

e-commerce to see what would happen next

21:04

and we knew that the perfect products

21:08

were products were already taking like

21:10

contact lenses or books and stuff like

21:12

that and but the customers became much

21:14

more ready to buy products that were

21:17

harder to buy online like shoes but we

21:20

evaluated at different different kind of

21:22

verticals baby products that was later

21:25

founded by my friends Marcus and Lynn

21:27

focus on baby shop is one of the biggest

21:29

and we evaluated also the the pharmacies

21:33

because they it was state loan in Sweden

21:35

and was not privatized but we can we had

21:40

seen the journey of sack posts in the

21:42

states very much because it was so close

21:45

to how we looked at the customer and we

21:47

realized that they had totally changed

21:49

the shoe markets in the States but here

21:52

or I think we it was only 2% of the

21:55

customers who bought shoes online when

21:56

we started and now it's a thing

21:58

20% of something I does so ok we could

22:01

still drive that change here and in the

22:03

Nordics say we had some competitors but

22:05

that's good because then it would will

22:06

not be that expensive for us to you know

22:09

educate customers so we can do things

22:11

better and so we started off and and we

22:16

raised capital because that's that's you

22:18

you always had to do that from the very

22:20

beginning to you know build the

22:21

warehouse and build a good sort of an

22:24

assortment of products but and we the

22:28

first little bump in the road was when

22:31

the good friends said no to us are we

22:36

talking like the brands you have to have

22:39

alright ok but so and this is very

22:43

typical us because we would never say no

22:45

for an answer

22:45

like no we're never take no for an

22:52

answer

22:52

and we will always be so customer

22:54

focused so we I mean if we know that our

22:56

customers want those shoes we'll make

22:58

sure they get them so we said that our

23:00

customers want your shoes so we will

23:01

make sure we have them um it's it's a

23:03

pity that you said no but we'll make

23:05

sure we have them so I took a what do

23:08

you call it like a lorry like a big I

23:11

took it truck like the biggest truck you

23:14

can have without having a trucker's

23:16

license and I drove with 1 billion I

23:19

love how you driver so I took we had a

23:28

lot of cash I had so much cash I was

23:30

sleeping in the truck you know yeah on

23:33

the cash and then later on the shoes I

23:35

mean I didn't have a gun so I would

23:37

protect this money and and she was but

23:39

it was over how much money did you have

23:41

in the car 1 billion Swedish yeah

23:43

because I knew that I had it work yeah

23:45

it was crazy it was a crazy journey so I

23:48

and this 1 million 1 million that's a

23:58

big truck bed so many ways like how much

24:06

money did you

24:08

and why did you take the magnetron and

24:11

why did you raise a problem so many

24:15

questions and why nobody I saw it in

24:23

your faces that you were like this is

24:26

before you could you have to be good so

24:29

this is in the area when you compose to

24:31

be a good person but you can really be

24:34

drug dealer why the truck had to have

24:38

that big wheel to drive where did you go

24:54

so the whole thing about the European

24:57

Union is that you're actually allowed to

24:58

buy anywhere but I think that mm

25:00

intended it was not really allowed you

25:02

know it was still this always agent

25:05

selling things in different markets and

25:07

yeah it was a real thing to do in that

25:10

industry so I went to Germany and I

25:14

contacted a lot of other you know real

25:16

brands normally sells actually and we

25:19

made a lot of really like legal deals to

25:22

make sure we had those brands and in a

25:24

couple of days we could also show online

25:26

that we had had the brands we needed so

25:29

of course they called us because you get

25:32

a brand either with them note like

25:34

thinking they will use they would lose

25:37

sales or market share so if you just

25:42

give them that notion of them having the

25:45

real risk of losing market share or

25:48

sales to someone else you know the

25:51

margins to someone else they were like

25:52

wake up and : so we did it we faked it

25:56

until we made it a little bit but also

25:58

you know made sure we had other deals

26:00

for that so I mean we became pretty big

26:03

in a short period of time but also it

26:05

was one of the brands was so mad at us

26:08

so we were at this shoe fair and he

26:12

shouted all over the hall or what what

26:16

you call it and he shouted see you in

26:18

her in the in hog a court

26:22

my heart in hog and hog is you know the

26:25

war tribunal what do you call it yeah

26:28

it's like we're like yeah so that was

26:35

like you know and also I think that what

26:37

can someone learn from that it is never

26:41

buying the rules of a new industry and

26:44

especially not in times of these because

26:47

it's like so many things changing and we

26:49

still have this conservative

26:50

conservative industries that there will

26:53

be a lot of people saying to you this is

26:55

how it works and if you white want to

26:57

buy from us you have to do this and this

26:59

and and and and all these other rules

27:02

that are in every industry of how it's

27:04

supposed to be made and but but you you

27:07

will listen to your customer and you

27:08

will know what will be the right rules

27:10

for that industry and if you grow then

27:12

all this other the customers have been

27:15

influencing the whole industry and you

27:17

know making new rules for how that will

27:20

work and they very customer friendly so

27:22

I mean I think that footway has been a I

27:27

mean now everyone wants it wants to work

27:29

with us so I mean you have to just you

27:30

know be patient and solve the problems

27:32

that make sure the customer gets what he

27:34

or she wants and it was just one example

27:37

of you know hustling you have to do to

27:39

to you know make the customer happy what

27:42

do they say when you came down to

27:44

Germany you were like I want to buy a

27:45

thousand two thousand pairs of paint

27:49

cash yeah twenty twenty-nine yeah and I

27:57

had a little dress on I mean I when I

27:59

think about it that like I didn't I

28:01

didn't seem very serious at the time I

28:03

think gym bag - what about I like shoes

28:06

yeah that's actually a bias I meet all

28:10

the time like when I when I say that I

28:11

started a company selling shoes online

28:14

okay so you were a lady liking shoes and

28:17

it was like no I was not I was a lady

28:19

who knew ecommerce after you did foot

28:21

way you started investing in other

28:23

companies exactly and you met Suzanne

28:25

yeah we met playing poker actually

28:27

already in 2010 because she had started

28:30

a company that later became 11 which is

28:32

one of the biggest you know

28:34

and reseller for beauty products and so

28:36

we we really we worried this final table

28:39

you know the last ten of the game and

28:42

she she's just so smart and inspiring

28:44

and always and so we we had these

28:48

different companies and not competing at

28:51

all but different kind of problems and

28:52

you know challenges so we became friends

28:55

and also you know coaches to each other

28:58

in a little way in a bit anyway and also

29:02

you know raising a lot of capital

29:04

capital to our companies meeting that

29:07

world and realizing that there are not

29:08

always I mean we had really good

29:11

investors but their models are not so

29:13

founder friendly and also they miss out

29:16

of a lot of potential a lot of I mean in

29:19

Sweden and this is how it looks in all

29:21

countries in the world capital stays in

29:24

very homogeneous networks in the inner

29:26

cities like you know very often the

29:29

capital soda of the country which means

29:32

that if you know any of that 200

29:36

investors in Sweden you will probably

29:38

have a pretty decent chance of you know

29:41

building a big company because capital

29:44

is needed in a global competition but if

29:47

you don't then your chances are good

29:51

exactly I mean if and statistically it

29:54

means like the further away you are from

29:56

their background the way they look and

29:58

and also their geographic position and

30:02

things like that it just seems like

30:04

statistically you're screwed - use your

30:07

ones word which means that a lot of

30:10

potential is being left out a lot of

30:12

return is not being made so I mean this

30:15

is a problem as a lot of society of

30:18

course because it's a democratic problem

30:20

it's like it means you came you could be

30:23

and at the best founder in the world but

30:26

not making it because of you not knowing

30:29

the right people right it's not it's a

30:31

problem but for me and Susan we don't

30:34

think so much about problems we just

30:35

solve them you know so for us it's like

30:38

this is like someone has to invest in

30:42

these companies because there's so much

30:43

money to be made here

30:44

it was a business

30:46

potential that we saw and know and

30:49

thinking about it and looking how on how

30:52

the models that are built in the

30:53

industry the way they simplify things by

30:56

working with network it's like they're

30:58

really good at what they're doing but I

30:59

have found that if they work like very

31:02

network based they will simplify it by

31:05

just making sure there they don't have

31:07

to meet too many companies so it's

31:09

actually a lot like a little funnel that

31:11

they built you know but if you if you

31:15

look at what we have today with all the

31:16

dates that you can collect them you know

31:19

all the analyzes you can make by just

31:21

you know turning them all around and

31:22

looking for the underinvested verticals

31:25

or the left up our target groups or just

31:28

by looking at data you've so much to

31:30

find so what we did was that we just

31:32

started looking at the data starting you

31:35

knew it was very driven by intuition in

31:37

the beginning of us being pretty decent

31:40

that you know seeing consumer patterns

31:42

seeing angry target groups or forgotten

31:45

target groups or undid sized businesses

31:49

and just like you know these things have

31:51

to happen and that's why this should

31:54

probably be good vertical to invest in

31:56

going from that building a camping

31:58

company or actually starting a fund

32:01

raising capital and we what was so

32:04

amazing was that we just we did a wish

32:07

list of the investors who wanted to

32:09

bring along here because we wanted to be

32:12

known as good people

32:14

we would rather raise less capital in

32:16

and work with not good people if you

32:18

know and we wanted them to have some

32:20

kind of impact like global networks but

32:22

also impact like you know because it's

32:24

such an important matters we want it's

32:26

because yeah to be shown that it's an

32:29

important matter but we kind of we I

32:31

think we got everyone out of except from

32:33

one of our wish list to invest in our

32:36

front so we have like the best I mean

32:39

I'm so proud of the team we have now

32:41

with the founders and our investors and

32:43

and what we can do globally to change

32:46

and also you know make return and this

32:49

company is called back in my mind

32:52

exactly exactly because the domain was

32:56

still free and because that's what we do

32:59

we're back we

33:00

backers you know so it's early very

33:04

early stage no it's uh yeah but the

33:06

thing is like it's the valuations of a

33:10

very early stage but because we're

33:12

looking at companies that others are not

33:14

looking at we can go in much later but

33:18

still to a lower valuation so I mean the

33:22

less like the the more the risk is

33:24

decrease the better the investment will

33:27

probably be so we'd rather follow

33:30

companies over time to see how they you

33:33

know achieve their goals and you know if

33:35

the revenue is coming in so and and so

33:40

that what was once our intuition we've

33:42

also I mean we we still want to have

33:45

place for intuition our team you know to

33:47

look at all these amazing things

33:49

happening tech not in technology and

33:51

with the demographics changing but also

33:54

we've built the technology that supports

33:56

that that you know a little machine as

33:59

we call it a deal find machine it sounds

34:02

like an action movie but that would

34:05

collect all the data we think we need to

34:08

identify back in minds potential you

34:12

should build it like in the physical

34:14

form of a slot machine oh yeah it's very

34:19

much like thinking of that machinist you

34:21

know having holidays done yes you know

34:22

we know how to grade different things

34:24

because yeah it's it's a slot machine

34:26

every morning you come in and you pull

34:28

the lever yeah yeah and the better the

34:31

technology we like the better it gets

34:32

the more you know relevant the companies

34:35

that are coming out there a slot machine

34:36

are so I mean it's we have built a

34:38

defined slot machine so when you sit

34:40

with these entrepreneurs and you're

34:43

gonna decide if you're going to invest

34:45

or not yeah you should have this

34:47

physical slot machine I wanna I want to

35:00

change it all I want in the future I

35:02

want the founders to have a slot machine

35:04

because they will be in charge and we

35:06

will be that the investors would be the

35:08

one not in charge so we'll have to come

35:10

he you know them powder should draw the

35:12

slot machines

35:13

what the investors that are good enough

35:15

to invest in their companies slot

35:19

machine you have three parameters so it

35:22

could be like e-commerce and whoever

35:26

there and yeah the thing is we we're not

35:31

really investing in e-commerce right

35:33

thanks for bringing ecommerce comes up

35:36

then it's a no yeah exactly

35:39

no but um so we have found amazing

35:41

companies and also we've been growing

35:43

together now because we you know some of

35:45

them we've invested in you know three

35:47

years ago now so one of them our first

35:51

investment transfer galaxy I just have

35:53

to talk about them all the time because

35:55

they're so good and it's also the fact

35:57

that they were missed out of the wrong

35:59

reasons

35:59

so they we did we looked at the target

36:02

group immigrants as consumers because

36:06

there there are 100 million immigrants

36:10

in in Europe it's a big target group and

36:12

we looked at them like like what other

36:14

consumer patterns possibilities problems

36:17

you know things like that and we saw 12

36:20

huge areas where they actually differ a

36:23

little bit from other consumer groups

36:25

and one of them is sending money back

36:27

home to your home country in there is

36:30

one option Western Union yeah and they

36:32

try I mean we we have to talk about this

36:34

they charge 16 percent of what you sent

36:38

to more most areas in the world so they

36:40

are gangsters yeah I mean I normally

36:43

don't say that word but you did it and

36:45

I'm not denying it there are also not

36:50

digital which is like it's not a you

36:52

know a modern money transfer services

36:55

that have a cache truck with cash yeah

36:58

yeah especially in the room recalls like

37:03

the the countries on the other side

37:04

where you have to do a package pickup

37:06

which is like in some ackerson's

37:08

currencies it's several bags I'm

37:10

bringing back home so it's also probably

37:12

but so we we looked after digital

37:14

solution instead and found is amazing

37:17

company outside of viva la outsider Abu

37:19

in a very rough

37:20

suburb or almost like the hoods it's not

37:24

a no-go zone but almost the closest you

37:26

get in sweet

37:27

I would say so they come from there and

37:31

they have Somali backgrounds they were

37:33

customers themselves and just decided to

37:35

start something better they got all the

37:37

licenses needed I finance inspect corner

37:40

in it and it's a thing I don't remember

37:42

the English word now never mind

37:46

and they just thought everyone would

37:48

want the invest in this because it's

37:50

just too good and this had even started

37:52

in started sending money they contacted

37:55

more than 120 investors and did not get

37:58

one meeting I mean not one meeting

38:01

that's kind of funny but in a bad way

38:03

yeah yeah it's it's crazy so when we

38:06

call them like almost like cold call

38:09

names they there should send a physical

38:13

slaughter yes we resent our slot machine

38:15

[Laughter]

38:17

when we called them they were like sorry

38:20

is this a prank they were like I thought

38:23

it was prank but now we've been working

38:24

together and they sent four hundred and

38:26

sixty million Swedish last year they

38:29

were like they are our most like one of

38:31

Europe's fastest growing fin tech

38:34

companies and they are still in viva la

38:36

from Sweden only or from several

38:39

countries no I think they were yeah they

38:41

are in top of you know feeling faint

38:43

when you look at like the the the amount

38:46

was that from Sweden only or that for

38:47

yeah that was from several countries

38:49

yeah sending from several countries and

38:51

to several 25 maybe it's actually above

38:54

30 now different countries and and

38:57

what's so amazing about them and also to

38:59

talk about what what what what's our

39:01

drive it's also because I mean top tier

39:05

for us is return but also you know it's

39:07

very good to feel that you're driving a

39:08

good change as well so they've stayed in

39:11

be valid they are becoming a big input

39:13

employer they're now hiring people with

39:17

language skills no one else wants you

39:19

know and also becoming role models for

39:24

this area where they have never had role

39:27

models from entrepreneurship they had

39:29

slapped up slapped on was a role model

39:31

but this is now everyone wants to become

39:33

the next Joseph Mohammed and it gives me

39:36

goose bump every time just talking about

39:38

this because do you realize what we like

39:41

what

39:41

they're building there is hope for the

39:43

future and it's entrepreneurship hope

39:45

and here comes to the like the key of

39:48

what we're doing and the bonus of what

39:51

we're doing as you say it's like if you

39:52

give the like in a society we talk so

39:55

much about the quality in different ways

39:57

and you know in more in management teams

39:59

and imports but their owners are the

40:03

bosses of the society actually there are

40:07

the ones choosing the board and they're

40:08

just the one there's the one there are

40:11

the ones with the money and no but what

40:14

so what are owners they are

40:17

entrepreneurs or entrepreneurs kids kids

40:20

kids you know like generations off

40:22

they're entrepreneurs so if you really

40:24

want to change something if you really

40:25

want to bring all people into

40:27

entrepreneur alike into owning in this

40:30

society you should make sure

40:32

entrepreneurs get the right keys to

40:35

build their companies that's how you

40:37

really change something and then they

40:39

become employers in new areas in new

40:41

industries for new people and also role

40:46

models so I mean this is something that

40:48

really really inspires us and makes this

40:51

job from every day that sounds like a

40:54

guest for us he's amazing and also I

40:57

mean we have to talk about Susan more

40:59

because she we are the one you know

41:01

building it we said her name so Sam

41:02

coffee yeah of course but so this is

41:08

it's just one example I have a camp and

41:10

can bring you another example of a woman

41:14

called amnesty Levin her family from

41:16

Italy in shipping I guess the Swedish

41:18

towns who started a company 17 years ago

41:23

so just not being a start-up made not a

41:27

lot of investors not looking at her but

41:29

what we saw we did another analysis and

41:31

so this digital health care providers

41:34

growing rapidly but also I mean what -

41:37

if you - back it a little bit so what

41:39

you see now is if you look at health

41:41

care I think it's really interesting is

41:43

that so the demand for higher is for you

41:47

know quality and access is you know

41:51

increasing every year which drives the

41:53

cost in half

41:54

and it's very very easy to solve the

41:57

access problem that's why you see that

42:00

the digital health care providers grow

42:02

so rapidly right now but if you really

42:04

want something to sort to solve the real

42:07

problem and not you know a decrease illa

42:09

increasing the costs there's a lot of

42:12

solutions around that and that's what

42:13

we've been looking at so privately I'm

42:16

an I'm an investor in doctrine which is

42:18

a you know actually autumn icing they're

42:21

lucky with in you know old traditional

42:23

health care but also we've invested in

42:26

this company dynamic code dynamic code

42:29

founded by an Indian who worked as

42:32

Sweden's CSI you know she she's she's

42:40

the CIO of Sweden but she was like you

42:43

know she has started a company with its

42:47

DNA technology tests for diagnosis so

42:52

you're taking the test yourself to find

42:56

out if you have any of the STDs if you

42:59

have so if you have different types it's

43:04

it's tests that you take for to

43:06

establish like day notice on different

43:08

different diseases or you know gluten

43:11

intolerance and things like that what is

43:13

so cool about these companies that

43:15

they're building a technical platform

43:17

that ties the consumer to the digital

43:21

health healthcare provider and

43:22

pharmacies which means you never have to

43:25

leave home and fork really you mean

43:27

doctor all the other digital health care

43:29

providers they can just look in their

43:32

own view and press a button and that

43:34

company like dynamic code will take care

43:36

of everything else

43:37

tests logistics web lab analyzes and

43:42

test result so I mean we're growing

43:45

really really well with this digital

43:47

health care providers coming out in so

43:49

you don't have to do all the consumer

43:51

marketing basically know exactly so

43:53

that's a good thing but also I mean it's

43:54

like just looking into the future of

43:56

healthcare and and and the fact that you

43:58

don't even have to be in hospital meant

44:00

to get a very certain result of what

44:03

this is you're having it's very

44:06

interesting I think and

44:07

in a couple of months dynamical will

44:09

cover 97% of the primary healthcare

44:14

stagnant need for diagnosis so it's a

44:18

it's a very interesting but she was also

44:20

missed yeah for reasons we don't have to

44:23

talk about but it's just we are we are

44:26

very proud of her and she was pretty

44:28

basically not in the the normal

44:30

demographic that you would be looking

44:31

exactly yeah sector you find these

44:34

companies yeah but you also have I would

44:37

imagine a bunch of companies coming to

44:38

you yeah exactly

44:39

what do you see what kind of trends do

44:41

you see in that no okay so we see some a

44:44

lot of friends we would never go into

44:45

it's been a lot of you know

44:47

cryptocurrency platforms recently and

44:49

also a lot of you know

44:51

I think companies misunderstanding

44:53

digits digitizing over the world you

44:56

know it's it's not a just an onboarding

44:58

it's an I think digitizing now is

45:01

automation it's really affect you know a

45:05

driving efficiency within the systems so

45:09

I think that there may be a lot of the

45:12

technical companies are a little bit too

45:13

shallow when it comes to the digital I

45:15

like to take aside there's I mean

45:18

there's a lot of talk about AI and very

45:20

few companies that are are there yet

45:22

blockchain technologies of course which

45:26

is it's been a little backlash because

45:28

of the cryptocurrency

45:29

people can't really see the difference I

45:32

very much believe in in blockchain and I

45:34

am very interested in the markets in the

45:37

world that will we have not and will

45:41

never have our infrastructure and that

45:44

will start from their cell phone instead

45:46

and what technologies that can be built

45:49

out of that not having our legacies our

45:52

very complicated you know layers of

45:55

technology that goes way back to the

45:59

sixties here to to take into account so

46:02

I'm like super excited about what will

46:04

happen in in a big parts of Africa and

46:07

even Asia considering what they have

46:10

they would totally leapfrog us they're

46:12

talking about different technologies so

46:15

I'm really looking forward to see what

46:16

will happen we talked to Jenny Casey

46:18

recently yes

46:20

she's amazing yeah and how I think this

46:24

entire chain of people wanting to do

46:26

good for the world and then it company

46:28

comes out that can provide you with the

46:30

product where they also do good for the

46:31

world

46:32

yeah and they provide you with a brand

46:34

so that you can show you know your

46:36

identity to other people and part of

46:37

that identities doing good to the world

46:39

yeah so those companies are going to be

46:42

doing well and returning a lot of money

46:44

on the investment for people that may

46:46

invest in that actually without even

46:48

trying to save the world they will save

46:50

the world anyway that's what I mean when

46:55

saying sustainability I sustained take

46:57

what you could call it is coming in

46:59

because it's not coming in because of a

47:01

social impact or you know sustainable

47:03

impact it's coming in because it's

47:04

actually the best way of building the

47:07

future like so it's like and also I can

47:10

see a lot of investors realizing that

47:12

and not investing in it because of the

47:14

good but rather because of the return it

47:17

will be you know or maybe both of it but

47:20

that was hope I think yeah that people

47:22

can now this is the most profitable

47:24

thing you can do is to save the world

47:25

yeah and that's great because then we

47:28

can all talked about that with Jenny as

47:30

well that needs to be a company like if

47:34

you want to attract the amount of money

47:36

that you need to innovate in an in

47:38

battery technology or something like

47:40

that you'd need to have a sustainable

47:42

business model that is and what's what

47:45

else I like because it's also it's been

47:47

so short-term I mean I heard the other

47:49

day that Softbank has a 300 year plan

47:52

Wow

47:53

and that because it's always been like

47:55

okay we would we would love to invest in

47:57

this sustainable technology but we don't

48:00

know if we can really get return in five

48:02

years I mean it done it that hasn't have

48:06

to be a part of the problem because I

48:07

think that a lot of investors are

48:09

building more long-term funds as well

48:11

which is also a help when you look into

48:13

the future because I mean if you want

48:15

return in five years a lot of the

48:17

technologies are not ready yet

48:19

to give that so you have to be more

48:20

long-term when looking at sustainable

48:22

technology a lot of them

48:24

what's really cool is like the basis of

48:27

sales and the basis of then really a

48:30

company is that you

48:33

you fix a broken leg you actually solve

48:37

problems exactly so it's impossible to

48:40

build a company that doesn't solve the

48:42

problem yes and it can be rational

48:44

problem and an emotional problem exactly

48:46

but still all companies solves problems

48:48

and what you said Walter I think was an

48:52

amazing thing is that the 17 sustainable

48:56

development goals is really the business

48:58

plan for the world and because these are

49:01

really big challenges and really big

49:03

problems there are amazing business

49:06

opportunities to make a lot of money and

49:09

at the same time saving the world yeah

49:12

totally and I sometimes I think that I'm

49:14

working in politics you are I think yes

49:18

I mean all the people around me they are

49:20

solving huge problems and they would

49:22

never go into politics even if they have

49:24

them even both the skills and the

49:26

possibilities because it's it's too slow

49:28

in politics but this is a way of really

49:31

really changing huge problems and Drive

49:33

a future you want to see for your kids

49:34

speaking of that if you were to give

49:38

some advice to our politicians here in

49:41

in Scandinavia and especially Sweden

49:44

what would you say come closer

49:47

I mean honestly they don't know how

49:50

businesses work very often it's like

49:53

they don't know how businesses are

49:55

actually the you know core of building a

49:58

society that's where the it's the

50:00

fundamental of taxes coming into the

50:03

system so if you make it easier to start

50:05

a company you will make it easier to get

50:07

a lot of taxes for the state and it's

50:10

like they haven't figured that out even

50:15

so and I also think like you know if we

50:18

could work closer if they can open up

50:20

their systems with secure api's to my

50:23

world they would see happen

50:25

sorry about that word because tell us

50:28

more yeah so so what now we have like it

50:31

all these authorities only see very slow

50:35

working systems that surrounds our

50:36

society all these companies hiring

50:38

thousands of people to the cost that you

50:41

can you can't even imagine how much they

50:43

cost much they cost and then you have

50:45

these all amazing

50:46

founders that solve problem in huge

50:49

scale with the skills to solve even the

50:52

problems of society but you have a wall

50:55

in between between those worlds and they

50:58

don't even know how to you know they

50:59

don't even know how to shop the school

51:02

platform for Stockholm they paid 650

51:05

million and it sucks I'm sorry

51:07

give me 1 million at me but you know me

51:10

yeah give me I can get a good group of

51:13

friends much better so imagine if they

51:16

would open up there's you know systems

51:18

all there and and just what and it can

51:22

be secure don't think about a fake value

51:23

get and all that that's how it can

51:25

be really secure so all these startups

51:27

can work with real data and real time

51:30

ups to build new solutions for our

51:33

society I mean real society that is yes

51:37

Sarris I agree 100% with that there's a

51:40

huge opportunity and in making the

51:43

public sector more efficient huge huge

51:47

that's very inefficient today yeah yes

51:49

that school platform is an example of

51:51

yeah a terrible example but I think that

51:56

in their defense I think they understand

51:58

in a way more than we think it's just

52:01

that it's politically really difficult

52:03

to execute on many of these things it's

52:05

really hard to if you if you if you see

52:08

that ok obviously we need to have as

52:10

good of an option

52:12

taxation program in Sweden as they have

52:14

in the u.s. because otherwise we can't

52:16

bring in the talent for example

52:19

I would be so surprised if they don't

52:22

understand that but I think it's really

52:25

difficult for them to execute on for

52:27

Stefan the van to say that we're gonna

52:28

lower taxes for the rich as you know a

52:32

lot of people would see it and I think

52:34

that's a huge problem it's a problem

52:36

that's cost in a lot of ways I think

52:38

also by social media and just the

52:40

abundance of information so people can't

52:43

take the time to really understand you

52:47

used to be that we were looking at

52:48

watching TV all of us and we in a way

52:50

educated by it by the TV

52:53

yeah now we don't have time for that but

52:54

we're so busy with YouTube and Netflix

52:57

and everything so we can't sit down and

53:00

take the information in so it's hard for

53:02

the politicians to educate people on

53:04

what's actually going on yeah I mean I

53:06

want to be humble to their work of

53:08

course I mean I I'm not jealous of what

53:11

they have to do but if they don't do it

53:13

and I mean it's like I I know it's so

53:16

many aspects of you know the public

53:17

sector and everything it's very

53:19

difficult but at the same time just

53:20

start of you know setting up goals for

53:22

what will drive the country to the

53:25

future and just you know take help from

53:27

where where the knowledge is in in

53:30

certain areas and I think III don't see

53:34

that happening I don't see that that is

53:37

happening enough you know there you know

53:39

working over borders to create real

53:41

solutions for the future but it's about

53:43

courage and courage and bringing in

53:45

politicians that are actually great

53:46

communicators they can make the case for

53:50

the people voting that this is right and

53:53

this is important and this is about you

53:55

having a good life in the future and

53:56

your kids having a good life in the

53:58

future and making that case because I

54:00

think that's if you don't do that and

54:02

you've just focus on beating the other

54:04

side all the time you won't have the

54:06

resources to to educate people basically

54:10

and I think that's the problem because

54:11

we need to do that people to understand

54:14

why we need to have a tax program that

54:17

brings in talent why we need to have and

54:20

taxes it's just one part of it of course

54:21

but the rules that make it easy for

54:23

companies to to deploy here or to access

54:26

public data or whatever you know these

54:29

these little hurdles that politicians

54:31

put up in the way of

54:33

of entrepreneurs we're talking about the

54:35

future employers and food future jobs

54:37

and so I mean it's like it's not a

54:39

little thing no I mean it's it's a huge

54:42

thing looking into the future and all

54:44

the things happening with automation and

54:45

things like that so it's I think we yeah

54:48

I'm I'm here I'm I talk to a lot of them

54:51

very often but yeah I'm here to help and

54:53

bring in you know I mean in touch with a

54:56

lot of really good people that can

54:57

happen I have it one example if we have

54:59

time Christian language should bring him

55:02

on oh he's an old friend yeah

55:04

what I really like so that's just one

55:06

example of what you can do when you lose

55:09

when you use of you know the skills of

55:11

tech on solving problems in rural areas

55:20

so one example is that they built a

55:24

solution for a very small town where

55:28

they lowered the co2 emission with 50%

55:33

but in gree increased the service to the

55:36

citizens of the town when when in you

55:40

know the public traffic public

55:43

transportation and I think that this is

55:46

just one example of what you could do

55:48

when you just you know it let's really

55:50

skill people with high tech skills and

55:53

what was the solution the solution was

55:55

just you know a system where you could

55:57

let let that public transport know when

56:02

you want to go instead of buses and

56:04

trains going empty one of the problem

56:07

we're facing with you know the costs

56:09

that I've been driven up for you know in

56:12

rural areas and not you know knowing how

56:16

to get everyone on board in the

56:17

digitization and you know I don't

56:20

believe in everyone moving to cities I

56:22

don't believe in urbanization because I

56:25

think that you come to a point where the

56:26

life quality gets so much lower so you

56:29

read it when if we live in the did sighs

56:31

society you might as well stay in that

56:33

area but then you need the services and

56:35

to solve the services we need this kind

56:38

of examples if you would give us advice

56:40

building this initiative what what if

56:43

what advice would you give us I mean

56:46

you're

56:46

I mean I don't think you need advice I

56:48

think your may see I mean you can't ask

56:50

you for advice it's bad no but I think

56:52

this initiative is so good and I think

56:54

that there's so much you know and also I

56:58

want to you know talk a little about

56:59

Scandinavian Sweden as well just you

57:01

know having we have we have been very

57:04

progressive in certain areas of life

57:06

talking about you know the the

57:09

possibility to be parent and building a

57:11

company or being a parent building a

57:13

career but it's all oh I heard someone

57:16

the other day saying it we've had a

57:18

social experiment going on but a lot of

57:20

it has works I think like you noticed as

57:22

an example of starting in Sweden and

57:24

maybe take the best thing we have

57:26

learned to bring it out to the world I

57:28

think you could be the guys to do that

57:30

export our you know way of looking at

57:33

children and way of looking at equality

57:36

our way of looking at a lot of different

57:39

leadership as I said so I think that I

57:42

see us and the initiative that can you

57:46

know inspire people to learn more and

57:48

become more entrepreneurial I found

57:50

companies but also you know to maybe

57:52

bring out the best we have here to the

57:55

world and I think there will be an

57:56

interest for it I think you are the guys

57:59

to do it and I think that that could

58:01

actually improve the world wow that's a

58:04

high-five thank you for listening to one

58:12

in the water

58:12

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58:16

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[Music]