Gamifying Teenage Jobs With Yepstr Founder Jacob Rudbäck

Jacob Rudbäck

Jacob Rudbäck is the founder of Yepstr, a gamified hyper-local marketplace for teenage jobs like mowing lawns and babysitting. A former industrious teenager himself, and later a natural born entrepreneur, he found himself wanting to create the marketplace he always missed as a kid himself.

We have to say that this episode is like listening to smooth peanut butter as Jacob is one of the most likable people we've met and has some very valuable experiences and advice to share with us about everything from politics to shit sandwiches to setting up option programs. Enjoy!

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Transcript

Note: This is an auto-generated transcript that will butcher words and names sometimes (Our favorite is when our guest Johannes Cullberg became “Your Hummus Cool Bye”). The format is not optimized for reading, but for searching for specific segments. Hence the timestamps etc. Happy searching!


00:02

so I think we completely change how we

00:04

do our intros here let's change him yeah

00:06

so we had this scripted perfect intros

00:10

before and we they're just boring

00:12

yeah unpretentious yeah and so we want

00:15

to say things as they really are and we

00:18

had this amazing guest here

00:19

Jacob Rudd back yeah and he almost

00:23

changed his name to read back which is a

00:24

deadly spider and appear in Australia

00:27

yeah because he lives in Australia yeah

00:29

and we we wanted him to do the tyre

00:31

interview in Australian accent but he

00:33

didn't want to do that I guess probably

00:37

you would have wanted that either the

00:39

foundation of what the what's in the

00:41

water initiative is about is that

00:42

entrepreneurship and really great

00:44

companies do good as part of their

00:47

business idea we don't believe in

00:49

companies that make products that are

00:50

not good for the world and then try to

00:52

do good for the world and some other end

00:54

we believe in companies that have it as

00:56

part of their business idea part of the

00:58

core business to make the world a better

01:00

place and Jacobs company yep stir are

01:04

doing exactly that

01:05

yeah and he's actually transforming

01:08

education for young people kind of

01:11

covert yeah and the company they provide

01:14

simple jobs for teenagers and young

01:17

people and they facilitate that

01:20

marketplace where you can buy simple

01:23

services and sell them and it can be

01:26

things like mowing the lawn for your

01:27

neighbor or babysitting or something

01:30

like that and we also talked about

01:31

entrepreneurship in general like the the

01:34

hardships of entrepreneurship like the

01:36

challenges you can face and how to push

01:38

through what we call baguettes what

01:42

he called should be yes yeah he started

01:44

in Swedish with baguette but then

01:47

in the interview as a sandwich

01:48

never mind

01:49

he also elaborated on how long the

01:53

baguette was that was that you know

01:57

putting the on the bed and I really

02:00

and I mean I know all the entrepreneurs

02:04

that I know have tons of again they

02:08

can relate to that yeah maybe you can or

02:11

maybe you can't but anyway I think it's

02:12

funny and I would really dare you to

02:16

listen to the entire episode and make

02:18

sure that you subscribe and share our

02:20

stuff because it's important yes and we

02:24

we thank you so much for doing that and

02:25

it's been we're super grateful actually

02:28

to all the the things that we've seen so

02:31

far from you guys and that also helped

02:34

us be get featured on Apple podcasts and

02:38

we're super happy

02:39

should we just listen to the episode ah

02:41

yes let's start

02:44

[Music]

03:07

so nice to be here love the place

03:10

and yeah love you guys good energy

03:13

welcome Jacob how do you pronounce it in

03:16

English rebec run back run back this is

03:20

one of the most fun parts of this

03:22

podcast

03:23

it's how Scandinavian people pronounce

03:26

their names in English is very much a

03:29

recurring theme for us to talk about

03:30

that in in at length yeah well I I

03:33

committed I said if I stay in Australia

03:35

more than five years I'll change my name

03:38

to read back which is a very popular

03:39

Bureau over there oh and a deadly spider

03:42

but I left after four and a half years

03:45

so yep so now it's run back run back

03:47

yeah that's cool too yeah I think it

03:50

works it sounds a little bit like a

03:51

motorcycle gang or something yeah yeah

03:54

exactly the rod backs yeah it feels

03:57

exactly it feels tough

03:58

what's yep stir yep stir is a gamified

04:01

hyperlocal marketplace for teenage jobs

04:04

and what the hell does that mean well it

04:07

means that we help young driven people

04:09

find jobs in their neighbourhood like

04:10

babysitting lawn mowing dog minding as

04:12

they do a good job and get high ratings

04:15

they level up so it's like a game

04:18

levelling up means it's easier to earn

04:20

more money you also build your resume

04:22

and you eventually get access to company

04:25

jobs so yep streets both like a

04:28

practical complement to school that

04:30

teaches hygiene factors like arriving on

04:33

time doing a good job and negotiating

04:36

your babysitting salary but we also at

04:40

the same time coaching and screening

04:42

young people to see who are dependable

04:46

and who companies can can recruit or

04:51

employ or staff on smaller gigs you're

04:54

building in an incentive system for kids

04:57

to basically become good citizens I

05:00

guess exactly yep so I think there is a

05:03

like if you look at what's happened in

05:05

the world the last ten years we've had

05:07

this massive digital revolution and the

05:09

ones that have been hit absolutely the

05:11

hardest are the kids so

05:14

lower self-esteem you know addiction to

05:16

social media and online bullying games

05:21

great games I won't name any that steal

05:23

all their money you know that they have

05:26

been hit pretty hard

05:27

so I think it's about time that we build

05:29

something that really helps build them

05:31

and strengthen their them on the labor

05:35

market so that's what we do we take 15

05:38

year-olds essentially who have no

05:40

working experience and who are worth

05:41

nothing on the labor market and yeah we

05:44

teach them these you know street-smart

05:47

skills like how to pitch you know to win

05:50

a gardening job how to when you reach

05:54

level four we teach them about

05:55

negotiation so we give them a challenge

05:58

to negotiate up there babysitting salary

06:00

in five Kronus per hour you know all of

06:02

these real-life learnings that we all

06:05

have to go through we just try and help

06:07

them get that early because we think

06:09

that's how entrepreneurship really

06:11

starts figuring out that this wasn't

06:15

that hard this is amazing yeah I

06:28

think one thing that we recently talked

06:31

about in we talked about it in almost

06:32

all episodes is how the schooling system

06:35

is a very important part of life skills

06:38

and attitude and a foundation of

06:42

identity and the thing that you're just

06:44

saying is that this is in addition to

06:46

the schooling system teaching the life

06:49

skills and the attitude that you need to

06:51

succeed in life basically exactly yeah

06:53

the the street smartness I was very

06:56

fortunate I grew up with two parents who

06:58

were entrepreneurs and so basically I

07:01

didn't get any money which was hard at

07:04

the time because my friends had nice

07:06

jackets and stuff but my parents would

07:08

ask me here ah well if you want a nice

07:11

jacket how are you going to earn that

07:13

money and and it got me thinking and

07:16

eventually I went around with flyers you

07:18

know and yet like mowed people's lawns

07:21

paint a fence some time and so on and I

07:25

think those lessons when I look back

07:28

are extremely relevant and important

07:30

because they do so much for you like

07:32

they help you build your identity and

07:34

also the feeling that I can do this you

07:39

know an adult person thinks I'm good and

07:42

my parents are proud and I've earned

07:45

some money as well that is I can go to

07:47

the movies all of those things it builds

07:50

confidence it builds creativity and it

07:53

also teaches to you that business

07:55

earning money

07:57

that's fun like that's like a game a

08:00

video game for adults you know you money

08:03

you earn you can bring to new levels and

08:06

so on but if you're only playing a video

08:08

game as soon as you leave it you lose

08:09

all your XP so so business is like the

08:12

video game for adults yeah I think

08:15

that's a I will always thought about

08:17

that when people play a lot of games and

08:20

wanted the reason and the drive behind I

08:23

mean it's much more fun like doing this

08:25

entrepreneurial initiative to really

08:29

okay how how much impact can we create

08:32

and it's really level so the first level

08:35

now is to get really amazing episodes

08:38

and get partners and scale up the

08:40

listening and the next the next level

08:42

will be a different different types of

08:44

challenges and it's really gamification

08:47

on the steroids building a business yeah

08:50

yeah we are celebrating today actually

08:53

because this week we are the featured

08:55

podcast on Apple podcasts Oh fantastic

08:58

congratulations hey where's the

09:00

champagne tea

09:02

it's too early not for me I usually I

09:04

always this is the first episode I

09:06

usually have one beer when we have do

09:08

episodes at least now you should go and

09:10

get one a nice selection but I remember

09:14

when I was a kid I did I wanted nothing

09:17

more than I want so much to work I

09:19

really loved the idea of working and I

09:22

couldn't figure out how to get a job hmm

09:25

so for me that was the problem I the

09:26

problem was not that I didn't want to

09:28

work I loved working yeah but I couldn't

09:31

figure out how to get a job so we find

09:34

the same like when we go around to

09:36

schools for example an interview kids 95

09:39

98 percent want

09:41

an extra job it's just that you know a

09:44

lot of them don't have the contacts or

09:46

their parents and so on to get those

09:48

first that first little opportunity

09:50

which if you look at a societal scale

09:52

over time it means that you have a lot

09:56

of people who end up thinking they're

09:57

not that good when we go around to

10:00

schools and we interview kids somewhere

10:03

95 98 percent want an extra job it's

10:06

just that a lot of them don't have the

10:07

contacts you know they don't have the

10:09

ins they don't know how to do that first

10:11

step so if we can just teach them that

10:14

you know it's it's really not that hard

10:17

now through three app store you can just

10:20

you can pitch and you can accept a job

10:23

and and get your first little resume and

10:27

then you know everything else follows

10:30

very quickly yeah I would imagine that

10:32

for me and I think this is probably true

10:35

for a lot of kids that I didn't really

10:38

have that my parents couldn't set me up

10:40

with a job a lot of my friends parents

10:42

could yeah

10:43

and they had their own businesses or

10:45

they had like you know they worked in

10:46

that type of events businesses or

10:49

whatever and for me my mom was a high

10:53

school teacher and teacher and my my

10:56

dad's doctor

10:57

yeah so I couldn't really do doctor

10:58

would work an itemization so what why do

11:02

you think you had that drive though

11:04

where did that come from initially why

11:06

did he think was so fun earning money I

11:07

don't know to me it wasn't about earning

11:09

money I think for me it was about even

11:12

though that was obviously you know good

11:13

yeah but if for me it was about feeling

11:15

significant I think yeah that's not just

11:18

how I look back at it yeah because

11:20

everybody has different drivers and but

11:24

we believe that if we can unlock and and

11:26

tap into that hunger or that you know

11:30

that that Drive then we can get so far

11:33

if we look at yep stir actually when we

11:36

look at our top-five yep's so a yep is a

11:39

young entrepreneur and and 2 out of 5

11:43

our recently arrived immigrants to

11:46

Sweden sonyalynne de which yeah which

11:50

just goes to show like also when we map

11:52

out on age or on sex

11:55

Suren there is no difference like drive

11:57

ambition that's equally distributed

12:00

whether you live in leading air or

12:03

rinkeby or wherever it's just there

12:07

really needs to be a platform like yep

12:08

stir that that helps helps these kids

12:12

get started just get those first steps

12:14

you're solving actually a political

12:16

problem here in my mind because you know

12:18

integration the most important part of

12:20

integration is is I I would think

12:23

getting a job even even more so than

12:26

learning the language absolutely and

12:28

there's a huge difference between

12:30

getting a job through our bit Smedley

12:32

and like some sort of charity like uh

12:34

here's a meaningless job that everybody

12:37

realizes doesn't really need to be done

12:39

but here's something and and getting a

12:42

job for for like a family or a house you

12:45

know it becomes a personal relationship

12:47

bonus we estimate somewhere between ten

12:50

fifteen percent of our jobs end up

12:52

becoming some form of mentorship or some

12:55

form of you know it becomes personal you

12:58

know people go wow Mohammed that's fun

13:00

you know you're really ambitious you

13:02

should speak to my friend Johan knows in

13:04

this field and I think I think the thing

13:08

that people are afraid to take people

13:12

into their homes and get help from

13:14

people that they don't trust and I think

13:16

that you probably solve an important

13:18

trust issue when saying this person can

13:23

be trusted yeah and you how do you do it

13:25

so that you can decide who's trustworthy

13:28

or not for when you like start for the

13:32

first jobs that people get yeah so we've

13:34

thought about this a lot you know should

13:37

we be filtering people should we be

13:39

looking at different assessments of

13:41

whether it's a good person or not and

13:43

we've decided against that because we

13:45

fundamentally believe that all young

13:47

people deserve a chance as soon as you

13:50

start filtering or conducting interviews

13:52

or getting people to write the you know

13:56

applications you filter out certain

13:58

groups of people and so the way yep

14:01

stirrer works is you post a task as a

14:04

customer and saying I'm looking for

14:06

gardening help

14:07

and then as soon as you you post that

14:11

our machine learning algorithm sends it

14:14

out to the most relevant

14:17

yep's for you and that has a lot to do

14:20

with distance so a big factor in why

14:22

people trust each other I think is the

14:25

fact that you literally get replies

14:27

across the street like 100 meters down

14:30

so you can like ah this must be Johnny's

14:33

daughter fancy that you know like it's

14:36

very it's very close and that's where

14:38

the hyperlocal part comes in and so

14:42

that's one thing the other thing are the

14:44

reviews of course and so Airbnb did a

14:46

study that once you reach ten reviews

14:49

you you trust those reviews more than if

14:53

a friend recommended it so if your

14:55

friend says saara is really dependable

14:57

yeah but then you go on to Airbnb or

15:01

Trustpilot or whatever and you see that

15:02

somebody has ten reviews you will trust

15:05

that more than your friends

15:07

recommendations it's interesting but I

15:09

think what we what I talked about before

15:10

about the reason I wanted a job was to

15:13

feel significant that I think is so true

15:17

if you come to country as a new you know

15:20

you come your yeah as an immigrant yeah

15:22

and you get these meaningless

15:25

educational programs or fake jobs or

15:28

whatever from the government as compared

15:31

to doing a job from you for instance

15:33

where you also get the feeling of

15:35

significance from seeing the the person

15:39

you're doing it for becoming you know

15:41

happy or yeah grateful yeah you have an

15:43

immediate effect on their lives which

15:47

you know I can talk about this for hours

15:51

literally but I'll keep it short like

15:53

and Sweden is a fantastic society from

15:56

many aspects but through this process of

16:00

becoming independent of all people you

16:03

know becoming fiercely independent and

16:05

with our social welfare state has led to

16:09

that you know a lot of us live alone and

16:11

we are very and yeah well we we stick to

16:16

ourselves

16:17

we have this attitude that ah if you

16:20

can't take care of your dog you

16:21

shouldn't have a dog as well at the same

16:23

time we have this invite Kamprad

16:25

mentality that really smear the Sahel

16:29

what's the English translation well you

16:32

know a good person should be able to

16:33

take care of himself so English am proud

16:35

i Kia's founders out there mowing his

16:38

own lawn with an old mechanical

16:40

lawnmower and we love that but that

16:43

is the biggest threat to integration to

16:47

youth unemployment because we're school

16:50

in this thing that we shouldn't take

16:52

help from anyone

16:53

right which is outrageous it's stupid

16:56

like we should be taking help from each

16:57

other because that's how relationships

16:58

are formed that's how people are

17:00

integrated and that's how kids get

17:03

started on on the whole career thing and

17:05

understand that life is not just school

17:07

and games and some soccer on the side

17:09

yeah we'd love to remove the simplest

17:11

jobs in Sweden because yeah not good

17:14

enough for something yeah we frown upon

17:16

them yeah which is silly we've we've all

17:18

started there yeah and I think that this

17:21

creates so control a feeling of control

17:25

for the person that does it like I do

17:27

this I know that I can do a good job in

17:30

cleaning this or doing whatever it is

17:32

and then you get momentum yeah so if I

17:38

can do this I can do this and you say

17:40

okay it's important for me to get good

17:42

reviews yeah like I remember when when

17:45

it Berg came to Sweden and I understood

17:49

that they had reviews for the passengers

17:51

as well

17:52

yeah I was like I want to have the best

17:54

with you yeah and the driver

17:58

should be tipping me nice riding with me

18:04

because I I don't know if this is part

18:07

of their algorithm but it felt like if I

18:09

had good reviews I got a better car and

18:12

a better driver yeah and and the thing

18:15

was when you put people in control over

18:18

their destiny yeah they will do

18:21

something with it but if you if you say

18:24

that ok I'm here in in Sweden or I'm

18:27

like I have these only these pointless

18:29

things to do that

18:31

has no real meaning yeah you take that

18:34

spark exactly and and and you you're the

18:38

worst thing I think is this the weight

18:40

like you come to Sweden and somebody

18:42

says no no you know don't like we're

18:45

working on this just wait like you have

18:48

a lot of like people have a drive and a

18:50

spark in an ambition so so freeing that

18:53

up is paramount and we're working on an

18:57

initiative on bringing together all of

18:59

the 120 players in the sharing economy

19:02

because there are things there are

19:05

legislative barriers that need to be

19:07

removed in services for example to make

19:11

this easy because people are still

19:13

terrified ah social fees you know and

19:17

sure how does this work like they're

19:19

terrified of it and second thing is

19:22

transportation third thing is real

19:24

estate fourth thing is crowdfunding like

19:27

we have blockages in all of these fields

19:31

that if politicians should be aware of

19:34

and should be working to remove I think

19:36

when you come to Sweden coming up we

19:38

talk a lot about immigrants now but

19:40

that's one of the angles here and I

19:41

think it's kind of teaches us something

19:43

when you come to Sweden and you've done

19:45

this huge journey an adventure to get

19:49

here you probably come here feeling kind

19:51

of happy that you arrived right yeah and

19:54

you have this energy and what we do is

19:57

we put people somewhere where they get

19:59

to wait forever without any you know

20:02

knowledge about what's going on yeah and

20:03

they they lose that you know just from

20:05

being an entrepreneur you know what that

20:07

feels like yeah you had you know what

20:09

you a downward spiral

20:10

feels like and you know what it feels

20:12

like to use energy that you have and

20:15

just keep going when it's going good for

20:17

you you know yeah yeah and I think that

20:19

just I've never heard a politician

20:21

really talk about that in that way lived

20:24

in a human way like the in terms of

20:27

human drivers yeah and you are one of

20:29

the you know the politicians should be

20:32

doing what you were doing

20:34

something meaningful to do right now

20:36

well we've been surprised at just how

20:39

how little support and

20:42

we've had when we go into the the public

20:45

space or the public arena and because

20:48

Sweden is very separated into are you I

20:50

am and not-for-profit or are you

20:52

for-profit okay you're a for-profit then

20:54

we can't talk to you so so that's a real

20:57

shame because I mean today we paid out

21:00

more than 8 million crona's to two and a

21:03

half thousand youths have been 22,000

21:05

jobs through yep stir and more than

21:08

three four hundred mentorships created

21:10

and entrances to the employment market

21:14

50 percent of our young people are have

21:18

non Swedish names you know we're we're

21:21

affecting society more for young people

21:23

and our bit for meddling and have for a

21:24

decade and so you know that I've really

21:28

been looking forward to that call but it

21:30

hasn't come down they're shutting it

21:31

down though I was familiar yeah yeah

21:33

yeah but I think that's why politicians

21:38

and businesses and leaders and basically

21:41

everyone needs to understand simply that

21:44

there are three types of companies the

21:47

first type of company makes the world

21:49

worse the second type of company is

21:51

neutral the third type of company which

21:53

is the companies we need to build make

21:55

the world better is not being a Nam for

21:58

profits it's a good business idea makes

22:00

the world better exactly and it's

22:02

sustainable yeah I mean if you don't we

22:05

talked about this before too but I I'm

22:06

on the board of a not-for-profit and I

22:09

really believe and you know I keep doing

22:12

it and we were doing something good for

22:13

the world so I'll keep doing that but I

22:15

think it's just so strong to create

22:17

companies that are sustainable and that

22:19

will attract investment because they

22:22

return on that investment you know in

22:25

money yeah that attracts even more

22:28

investment to a good cause then then a

22:30

not-for-profit it does in a natural way

22:33

so I just think that's the key and we

22:35

had Jenny Casey on here I don't know if

22:37

you heard that episode but she assumed

22:39

my equity and the only investing

22:41

companies like that yeah

22:43

which to me sounds just like a that's

22:47

exact is the future that's the only way

22:49

to do it I think that's where we need to

22:51

get to and and I'll touch briefly on on

22:54

the upstairs business model because I

22:56

think it's

22:56

so people often ask us you know how do

23:00

we make money and and why is this a good

23:02

business idea how can you attract

23:03

investors because this sounds yeah like

23:07

people like to separate businesses into

23:10

businesses that make money and

23:12

businesses that are nice and and it's

23:15

very hard for them to realize that

23:16

they're actually businesses that do both

23:18

but yep Strads a 10% fee on the

23:22

household jobs and that covers insurance

23:24

that sorts out all the taxation control

23:27

loop if they're and all of that and it

23:29

also means that your review is saved in

23:31

the yep's resume so that they can climb

23:34

level up and have something when they

23:36

later apply for a job we charge a twenty

23:39

five percent fee on the company jobs and

23:42

actually if you look at it it's in the

23:44

company space where we will be making

23:46

money

23:47

those jobs are larger and they can go on

23:50

for longer and the EPS have a higher

23:54

salary of course but we can also charge

23:56

companies more so if I look in the

23:59

future

23:59

when we have a really visionary investor

24:02

with us

24:03

we will probably subsidize the whole

24:05

peer to peer the whole household thing

24:08

and we'll give people insurance for free

24:10

and sort out taxes for free simply

24:12

because we see an opportunity that we

24:14

can later earn money when a cafe nearby

24:17

needs assistance or a small upcoming

24:21

startup needs some young people to hand

24:23

out fliers in their neighborhood or a

24:26

warehouse has a peak staffing period and

24:29

they need some some assistance just for

24:31

a short time I think that that exact

24:33

thing happened to me as a marketing tool

24:35

I think that's great because that

24:37

happened to me with tip top for example

24:38

it's a Swedish yeah yeah it's for the

24:41

less onerous yeah I love it too for this

24:43

for the listeners it's kind of kind of

24:44

in a way similar to what you are doing

24:46

but it's all about logistics moving

24:49

things from A to B basically yeah and I

24:51

started using that in my house here to

24:54

me to get you know whatever trashed out

24:56

of out of here and it worked so well so

24:58

we started using it at the company

24:59

mm-hmm and but just so to be very clear

25:03

to the listeners what you're saying is

25:04

that if you if you are doing a yep store

25:06

job for private individual that will

25:09

kind of in a

25:10

the future be subsidized that now was a

25:12

zero-sum game for you and yeah then you

25:14

will have it will be a negative game

25:16

negative even that is a loss it's a zero

25:18

game for us now right but yeah it will

25:22

be a negative it will be an investment

25:23

right so you only have ten percent on

25:26

top of that and you have twenty five

25:27

percent on top of you know when you do

25:29

it towards businesses exactly right and

25:31

the fee is of course always paid by the

25:33

customer and we're gonna keep it that

25:36

way

25:36

and for company jobs we have a flat rate

25:41

so yep always are in 120 Coronas per

25:44

hour and and the companies pay 220 and

25:47

the difference there is social fees and

25:50

so on and our margin of 25 percent right

25:53

and what why did you start this because

25:57

it needs to know so two two events I

26:04

think have have really informed me

26:07

through my life first one was meeting my

26:10

mentor and so I was out mowing lawns in

26:13

the neighborhood when this old guy

26:14

leaned over the fence and said that's a

26:17

very industrious young man you don't see

26:19

that very often nowadays and later I

26:22

found out that that was Don Stan old son

26:24

stay honest founder and I walked up one

26:27

day all sweaty and nervous because I

26:30

told myself I have nothing to lose and

26:33

knocked on his door I think I was 15 and

26:35

that led to a mentorship that lasted for

26:39

16 years he's coming to my wedding now

26:41

actually in August and this is not just

26:44

any old guy this is one of sweden's yeah

26:46

finest entrepreneurs ever yeah exactly

26:49

and all young people can do that like

26:52

literally the people successful

26:55

entrepreneurs like yourselves you know

26:58

if young 14 15 16 something walks up and

27:02

knocks on your door and says can you

27:03

teach me everything you know you know

27:06

it's it's very hard to say no to that

27:08

and so so that's one of the things that

27:11

we want to teach them through three EPs

27:13

to that you know you what do you have to

27:15

lose but so that was a key thing that

27:19

shaped me the other thing was my dad

27:20

saying Jacob I know you don't care about

27:24

anything I ate but if there's one thing

27:27

those real voice but if there's one

27:33

thing don't do what I did

27:35

don't do what your mom did don't start a

27:37

company straight after University okay I

27:42

said why I said well you know I've my

27:45

whole life I've had water up to you know

27:48

up to my nose basically I've always done

27:50

things that I feel I don't understand so

27:52

work hard earned some money work with

27:56

some smart people build a network and

27:57

then you can start and I said okay dad

28:01

how long and he said well maybe until

28:03

you're 30 at least and I actually did

28:06

this sure when I was studying I probably

28:09

started 20 companies along the way like

28:12

paintball park a sailing school that my

28:14

student student students are now running

28:16

I imported mineral water from Wales so

28:19

the golf clubs soft Aragon's

28:21

produced the toothpaste in China so that

28:24

IKEA allowing me again we called it

28:26

raised three million pounds invested in

28:29

Bosnian Ferro alloys smelter when I was

28:31

23 Steelman calm you can check that out

28:34

and so I had lots of projects but I

28:37

still was like okay I'm gonna be good

28:40

and work really hard and follow this and

28:43

along that course of 30 years I

28:47

literally made a list of business ideas

28:50

I think I have that list still with a

28:52

hundred 50 different ideas and yep stir

28:55

was one idea that I just couldn't kill

28:59

it it is scalable it's you can monetize

29:05

it it's something that the world really

29:08

really really needs it has huge impact

29:10

and mostly it's me it's I was mowing

29:15

lawns it's something I really believe in

29:17

I'm super passionate about this and so

29:21

so yeah that that's how the idea yeah I

29:23

think this spark was when my dad called

29:26

me in Australia I was 29 or something

29:28

and he said do you know somebody who can

29:31

help out and mow the lawn I'm 29 that I

29:35

live in Australia

29:37

my friends are not even in Gothenburg

29:40

anymore but then I realized just how big

29:43

this problem is do you have a problem on

29:47

the supply side at all we don't you

29:49

somebody about peer to peer that is a

29:51

common problem that you have a

29:53

supply-side problem and peer to peer

29:55

yeah so and exactly growing a

29:58

marketplace is very difficult

29:59

supply and demand imbalances especially

30:02

if you're a hyperlocal but being hyper

30:04

local has its benefits as well we can go

30:07

to the UK tomorrow and just start up a

30:10

street you know we can visit a school

30:13

and then we're done like then we start

30:16

our viral process starts kicking in and

30:19

but yeah on your on your question there

30:24

on the supply side no we don't have an

30:27

issue there because we built something

30:29

for the kids we give them what they want

30:33

which is they want to try lots of

30:35

different jobs they don't want to do

30:36

just dog minding or just babysitting

30:39

like there are some apps appearing now

30:41

they want to do lots of different jobs

30:43

we're also fair on them we don't take a

30:46

cut from their salary we don't charge

30:48

anything on their accounts we add 10% on

30:51

top of their salary that the customers

30:53

pay we build their resume beautiful

30:56

smart like looking resumes that are now

30:59

appearing in different petrol pump

31:01

stations and at IKEA and and marketing

31:04

for you yeah it's fantastic look if I

31:07

was to predict one thing I'd say summer

31:10

2020 is when employers out there will

31:14

start asking teenagers do you have a yep

31:17

ster CV that's cool that is yeah I I

31:20

want to ask people now we're bringing

31:23

some people in here right yeah we're not

31:25

letting anyone in without a yep ster CV

31:27

no of course I'll be first out saying

31:30

that yeah I want to be the guy saying

31:33

that so what kind of traction do you

31:35

have with the app store now and so we're

31:37

going 30% month a month if we average it

31:40

out and which equates to about three

31:43

hundred percent year-on-year and as I

31:45

mentioned we paid out about 8 million

31:47

kroners now

31:49

and spring season is are absolutely best

31:52

period so we're now in for a growth run

31:55

and we've stabilized a lot of key

31:58

metrics like getting people to stay

32:01

that's hugely important and that's

32:03

hugely difficult and so clients are yeah

32:10

yeah so okay so the the user stay but

32:13

you know if you post a task on the

32:16

episode for free and you're allowed to

32:18

interview baby sitters for free it's

32:20

very easy to say uh-huh we'll just pay

32:22

you some black money here on the side

32:24

instead so so getting people across that

32:27

is a challenge and that's taken us a few

32:31

years but I'm very proud now that we're

32:33

the platform that I know in the world

32:35

that has the highest retention so if you

32:37

pay once on yep stir you will on average

32:40

pay fifteen times per year really yeah

32:43

Wow and that just means that we've

32:46

succeed in that space the reasons are a

32:48

couple gamification is huge so the kids

32:51

say oh can we please take this through

32:54

yep stir and said because you know they

32:56

want to level up they want to build

32:57

their CV they want to unlock new jobs

32:59

and opportunities and the second one is

33:03

well of course our value offering that

33:05

we sort out taxes insurance and all that

33:07

but the third one is also we've become

33:10

more of a software as a service solution

33:12

really where if you have babysitting

33:14

every Friday you just get a notification

33:16

Sarah's arriving in two hours and do you

33:19

have anything changed otherwise we will

33:22

debit your card just as usual have a

33:24

great day like yours it's a life ID yeah

33:27

your life is on auto you don't even need

33:30

to go into that what if we would have

33:31

that kind of game of gamification like

33:33

with taxes in Sweden that would be nice

33:36

imagine if you had that like the more

33:39

you pay or you know is can it doesn't

33:41

necessarily have to be about the amount

33:42

but today more you pay the more you can

33:44

pay like the longer time you pay taxes

33:47

or something like that is how do you

33:48

level up I have a vision in this space

33:52

so you know it's Sweden we have like the

33:55

Nobel Prize and we have these these huge

33:57

things which are beautiful but we're

33:59

also the one of the worst countries in

34:02

the world when it

34:03

comes to mm how we treat entrepreneurs

34:07

with Texas so one a close business

34:10

friend of mine he has done his taxes

34:13

correct all the time he's always been on

34:16

time done everything just like you

34:17

should often paid more taxes than he had

34:19

to but one day when he started becoming

34:22

wealthy and the tax department decided

34:25

to attack him and that you know they put

34:29

a team against him just trying to see if

34:32

they can actually extract some of this

34:35

value and then he said and so after that

34:38

okay I play the game like everybody else

34:40

and he started you know moving money

34:43

into other places and setting up

34:45

completely legal you know ways to

34:47

minimize tax and I think I mean that's

34:52

hundreds of millions we're talking about

34:54

and I think you know doing that is so

34:57

wrong it's so and Counting yeah contra

35:03

projects it counterproductive exactly so

35:05

what we should do and here's my idea is

35:07

that we should have an event every year

35:09

where the king greets the ten top tax

35:14

payers in Sweden and gives him a medal

35:16

because they paid his salary so he gives

35:20

them a medal and says you know you've

35:22

paid a hundred million in taxes yeah you

35:26

paid for two universities three

35:27

hospitals to preschools thank you and a

35:30

big applause and then the next guy

35:32

because if you're a billionaire

35:33

you're not driven by the next billion

35:36

right you're driven by that people care

35:38

about you and think that you do a good

35:40

thing and so why don't we have this in

35:42

the highest text country in the world

35:44

why don't we award those people that pay

35:46

high tech it's almost the opposite it is

35:48

dopin

35:48

they're chased out of here yeah and I

35:51

think that you know it's and I mean one

35:53

could argue that okay so so but we you

35:57

know everybody contributes and we

35:59

shouldn't treat people differently

36:00

depending on how much they contribute

36:02

fine but we are not talking about

36:05

shaming people that don't pay a lot of

36:07

taxes we're talking about celebrating

36:09

the ones that are the top contributors

36:11

yeah why don't we do that yeah I think

36:16

it's strange

36:17

we should start it I'd be happy but I

36:19

ina I know why because I was in a

36:22

speaker contest I didn't know you could

36:26

have speaker contest but I was in a

36:28

speaker contest and after that speaker

36:29

contest everyone was posted their score

36:33

on a board it felt not very good to not

36:37

be the number one man and I and I think

36:40

that in this kind of in the Swedish

36:43

environment we don't want to make other

36:45

people sad that they're not the top one

36:49

instead of saying sometimes it's good to

36:51

get pissed off so you actually change

36:54

things yeah you drag people yeah create

36:56

incentives to perform better and and

36:58

wouldn't it be fantastic if okay I was

37:01

only top three in the tax-paying next

37:04

year I'm gonna pay you

37:05

yeah next bit yeah I'm gonna pay more

37:07

taxes yeah like that's a good incentive

37:09

yeah some politician I think was Mona

37:12

Selina a few years back said that it's

37:15

cool to pay taxes yeah okay sure

37:18

I agree so make it cool make it cool

37:20

it's not cool because you say it's cool

37:23

no and I'm all for higher taxes if you

37:26

earned more you should be paying more

37:28

but it's just you know the people that

37:30

are paying so much and contributing to

37:32

our society so much you know let's

37:34

recognize that I think entrepreneurship

37:36

in general it's not only taxes it's just

37:38

how the brand of entrepreneurs is

37:41

treated not amongst us obviously but

37:43

just in the country so many times I

37:45

think you hear people it's almost like

37:47

they're criminals or something yeah yeah

37:50

and and to me and I think that is also

37:53

one of the one of the goals we have with

37:56

this podcast is to show that the

37:58

entrepreneurs are really the heroes of

38:00

our community yeah speaking of that what

38:04

would you say is or are some of the

38:08

biggest challenges in the upstairs Ernie

38:11

so far that you like this is this has

38:15

been very very very hard hmm

38:18

so you made a metaphor about the cat

38:25

sandwich

38:28

ya know there are lots of

38:30

sandwiches to be eaten and so if I was

38:33

to name a couple of key challenges I

38:36

think starting as a sole founder is a

38:39

key challenge I lived abroad for

38:41

thirteen years and I didn't have time to

38:44

wait when I got back to Sweden I wanted

38:46

to get started and so that's been tough

38:51

but it's also been a huge opportunity

38:53

because along the journey I've met you

38:56

know like my perfect right hand and like

39:00

you meet the people that then build the

39:02

business so that's one thing the other

39:06

thing is when you're building something

39:08

new that doesn't exist you don't really

39:11

know exactly what competences you need

39:14

so you try some different competencies

39:17

and that means that sometimes you will

39:21

be wrong which means that you have to be

39:24

good at letting people go and and that's

39:27

also something very in Sweden

39:29

we don't like conflict we don't like

39:31

lots of startups die simply because they

39:34

bring on people and they like them as

39:37

people but when they're not delivering

39:39

or when they're not a good business fit

39:41

they're unable to let them go so that

39:44

that's hugely challenging and finally in

39:48

capital raising and funding is of course

39:50

always a challenge for most businesses

39:53

and we've been very fortunate in this

39:55

space we've had very good traction but

39:58

quite recently we had a like a major

40:02

fund drop out last minute which of

40:05

course changes everything and they have

40:07

to be very quick on your feet and and so

40:09

on and you go from from yeah you have to

40:13

change your strategy quickly so being

40:15

nimble is a huge advantage I think in

40:18

the startup space in in the u.s. it's

40:21

almost the opposite that's it's really

40:22

hard to keep people that are good yeah I

40:26

don't know if that's a problem here too

40:27

maybe um it depends on the business so

40:32

we've been very blessed that we attract

40:34

good people and so we offer lower

40:37

salaries and but will offer a

40:40

ownership stake and that's exactly the

40:43

kind of people we want to attract who

40:45

are like us and who who see the vision

40:47

and I want to do this for the right

40:48

reasons

40:49

so we don't get any money hungry and

40:52

salary pushing developers simply because

40:55

they wouldn't fit in we're a group of

40:57

believers who would think the word

41:00

should look like this and if we one day

41:03

I have built a huge company then of

41:06

course the profit so that should be

41:09

shared with the team how do you set it

41:11

up just if you're very practical now

41:13

yeah you start out with your company you

41:15

own a hundred percent of the shares and

41:17

then you start setting up your incentive

41:19

program how do you do that yes I'll give

41:21

you a couple of pointers so and the

41:24

first thing I do if you're thinking

41:25

about starting a startup with the global

41:29

potential is to convert 10% of your

41:31

shares to Class A shares and give them

41:35

10% voting rights so this is actually a

41:38

tip I got from my my mentor Don and it's

41:42

very easy at the beginning to do and one

41:45

day in 15 years time when you're sitting

41:48

there it's very nice to still have that

41:51

control of your business we have 10% but

41:56

you have control yeah just so you have

41:59

to set up 10% a share yeah so let's say

42:02

you have a hundred shares you convert

42:04

ten ten of them to Class A shares so

42:07

those 10 shares have ten votes each okay

42:09

so you have ten shares with a hundred

42:12

votes and then you have 90 remaining

42:14

shares with no votes with one vote each

42:17

one vote right yeah yeah so which means

42:21

that as long as you hold on to those

42:23

Class A shares you most likely have the

42:26

control over the business and this is

42:29

very important for a startup because in

42:30

the beginning it needs to be a

42:33

dictatorship you need to run fast as

42:36

hell you can't have every mom and dad

42:40

and every person you know an investor

42:42

weighing in on what you should do and so

42:45

that's that's my first recommendation

42:46

then and you can set up an option pool

42:50

like we did either you make it as an

42:52

agreement among your share

42:54

holder's and say that the board has the

42:57

right at any time to emit up to 100

43:01

options you know so then we agree that

43:04

if I see it fit or if the Board sees it

43:07

fit to give options and to a team member

43:11

then we can and that's been in our plan

43:15

and our deck from from day one that's

43:17

also important to anchor at the start

43:19

and then you can be more fancy and you

43:22

can make that option pool norm dilutive

43:25

so for example saying that the team

43:28

should always have 20% no matter how

43:31

much capital we raise no matter you know

43:33

their share should never change that's

43:35

much more difficult to set up and it

43:38

takes a lot more handling and

43:40

negotiation and to get through but

43:44

that's another way to set up and how do

43:45

investors respond to this setup smart

43:49

investors think it's really good so

43:52

smart investors actually see it as a

43:53

requirement that you have some form of

43:56

off option pool and that you look at it

43:58

this way because they want to see that

44:00

the team is incentivized and that the

44:02

people running the show are the ones who

44:04

who own it or own a large share but how

44:07

did they respond to the class a share

44:09

set up well similar thing there I think

44:12

the right investors that you have in the

44:15

beginning they invest in you and your

44:18

idea so they want you to run the show

44:22

and so it's more that they're like they

44:25

would want you to have a hundred percent

44:26

control but then of course as different

44:31

investors or companies that might want

44:34

to acquire you one day and try to gain

44:36

control they're a little less happy

44:39

about it

44:39

but then it's just another piece in the

44:42

negotiation puzzle right that you you

44:44

have so yeah it's those are my two good

44:48

recommendations FSA shares and option

44:51

pool we became a little bit technical

44:52

here but I think that's fantastic you

44:55

very rarely hear people talk about this

44:58

in these types of forums so yeah that's

45:01

great advice I think for for startups

45:03

out there ya know I I hope more startups

45:07

lay a good foundation because they'll go

45:09

a lot further it's so easy to build

45:11

something beautiful and then you make a

45:13

couple of small mistakes on stuff like

45:15

this and you lose your business or you

45:17

spend ten years like most founder or

45:20

there are lots of examples and you walk

45:22

away with nothing

45:23

yeah can you tell us about more

45:26

challenges more challenge you're so

45:30

probably oriented Johanna no no but I

45:32

think I think one of the things that is

45:35

really important is to understand that

45:40

everyone has challenges even even people

45:44

that are really successful they have

45:46

challenges and it's so easy I know I've

45:48

done that tons and tons and tons of

45:51

times I see this and I put someone up on

45:53

a pedestal and I think that that person

45:56

never had a challenge and everything

45:58

went smooth yeah so it's not about or it

46:02

is about inspiring people understanding

46:04

that there are some bumps in the road

46:07

yeah yeah for sure and I mention one one

46:14

challenge which I find still very hard

46:17

which I think all people who who build

46:20

these kinds of world-changing businesses

46:23

encounter and that is how much your

46:26

personal role has to change and how much

46:29

you have to change on that journey

46:31

so in this start you need to be hands-on

46:34

you need to know everything you need to

46:36

know every little knot every wire every

46:39

everything and of course as you as you

46:42

progress that's impossible and somewhere

46:45

around 5 10 15 employees you start

46:50

breaking down because you're working

46:52

very hard and but it you know you maybe

46:57

you're not working on the right things

46:58

and so on so so lifting your your

47:01

eyesight and delegating of course which

47:04

everybody talks about is hugely

47:06

important hugely important another

47:11

challenge and so I mentioned something a

47:13

bit more tangible was last time we were

47:19

raising funds

47:20

and we had a I had finally decided to

47:26

take the conversation with my co-founder

47:28

and so Philippe a great guy he joined

47:32

like four or five months after but I

47:34

always considered him like my co-founder

47:36

and but basically it didn't work out

47:39

between us and all startups have stories

47:43

like this and Spotify went through 3

47:46

CTOs the first two years I think so it's

47:49

extremely common but when you're in it

47:52

it's very it's very hard and especially

47:56

when it's somebody you really like and

47:58

so finally we decided to have that

48:00

conversation and it was I thought about

48:03

it for a long time because we were

48:05

raising money like a few months later so

48:08

is it a good time to have this kind of

48:10

conversation just before you're raising

48:12

money probably not but at the same time

48:16

I don't want to ever have something

48:19

where I feel like I'm being smart on

48:22

somebody else's like I don't want to be

48:24

that guy but I and this is something I

48:27

guess for my father I really want to be

48:30

the honest candid guy who deals with

48:33

issues straight away and don't try and

48:35

be smart all the time and so yeah we had

48:38

the conversation lots of Tears and stuff

48:42

but we agreed it was for the best to go

48:44

separate ways and we did it in a very

48:47

good way and so we of course spoke about

48:51

the fact that he owned a large share of

48:53

options and that the business needs

48:55

those options to attract new talent and

48:58

and so on and investors don't regard it

49:01

it's not viewed as a very good thing if

49:04

a passive person has lots of options in

49:08

the business and he was understanding to

49:11

that so of course he should keep a share

49:14

because he's invested blood sweat tears

49:17

time into building this business but we

49:20

arrived at a good conclusion and and

49:25

everything felt great and then we

49:26

communicated this to the team and then

49:29

the same day

49:32

our designer came to me and said ah

49:36

we're having a baby and unfortunately I

49:41

have to leave yep stir okay so that was

49:45

a huge thing because we only had one

49:47

designer answer then two days later one

49:51

of our developers came and we only had

49:54

two developers and Philip was one

49:57

yes we're also having a baby and yeah I

50:01

will also need to leave so all of a

50:03

sudden we were raising money and it was

50:05

basically just me and another person who

50:08

didn't know how to code and you're a

50:11

product company so so that was one of

50:14

the biggest sandwiches rod how did

50:18

that feel what why the emotional

50:20

strength that you went through at the

50:22

time if you look if you go back there

50:24

now well so what when that happens

50:28

everything sort of just you know

50:32

disappears it's like there's a very good

50:35

piece written about it cold I think it's

50:39

like when you're in the hole and it's

50:42

written about just that feeling like

50:44

food doesn't taste anything anymore like

50:48

you know you don't see colors basically

50:51

it's just like you're just trudging

50:53

through very heavy mud like it's it's

50:58

really it's like a tough period and I

51:01

know I spent a weekend there and felt

51:03

really really sorry for myself but

51:06

somehow somewhere I found that little

51:10

spark and said no we've gone too far

51:13

this is too good

51:14

the world needs this it let's let's

51:18

power on and one week later the

51:21

developer came back was like I don't

51:23

want to do anything else

51:28

that is a tough tough feeling and I know

51:32

I've felt it I know you have felt it

51:35

Johann and I I know every entrepreneur I

51:38

know I've been there so for me is kind

51:40

of emotional hearing that it's like well

51:42

I know that feeling so well

51:44

and I also know the opposite feeling

51:47

very well

51:49

so do you have any moments like that

51:50

when you just felt like now this is

51:53

amazing I'm on clouds here well

51:57

watching your product take off that's

52:00

amazing like those are one of the few

52:04

like really highlights when you walk

52:06

into the office and you see yeah we

52:09

grown we're growing again are we doing

52:12

any marketing we're not doing any

52:14

marketing and and it's just you know

52:17

there's something it's like something in

52:19

the water that's a fantastic feeling

52:23

another fantastic feeling was when I met

52:27

yes / so this sounds like a love story

52:30

but and maybe it is yeah

52:32

it is a business love story so far but

52:37

yeah when when I split with my

52:40

co-founder there we were of course

52:41

looking for a new technical lead or

52:44

ahead of tech and yes / I spoke to I

52:49

think it was I settled CTO fish brain

52:52

CTO and thick tail ctoc awash and asked

52:59

who are the best react native developers

53:01

they know and two of them mentioned yes

53:04

/ in like their top three lists and he

53:07

was like 26 he was consulting at the

53:10

time he was like making a hundred thirty

53:13

thousand crona's a month you know he was

53:15

he was very happy where he was and so I

53:18

never thought there was an opportunity

53:20

to get him across for a salary like a

53:23

fifth of what he had but we spoke a lot

53:27

we got to know each other we were

53:29

talking about a consultant project at

53:30

first and then one day he was like yeah

53:33

can we can we meet up I said you know

53:36

what I think I'd actually really like to

53:39

be a part of this and that was one of

53:42

those moments yeah I think it's I don't

53:47

know if this true story is true or not

53:49

we need to ask Carl when we have him on

53:51

here but I think that they posted the

53:53

the job ad for the CTO position at

53:58

ticked

53:58

in the code of the website yes that's

54:01

true and that's how see Russia found it

54:05

and yeah no that's true I've also heard

54:08

that but yeah get the full story from

54:10

him it's kind of a cool story yeah I

54:13

think the thing with I recently were a

54:17

couple of days ago I posted a LinkedIn

54:20

post about the different seasons of the

54:24

year that that also applies to life yes

54:27

so so that people tend to think that

54:31

when you were in that hole people tend

54:35

to think that it's gonna go on forever

54:37

and there everything is and it's

54:39

gonna stay until you die yeah yeah

54:42

and then everything shifts and

54:47

everything is good and then people tend

54:49

to think it's gonna be good forever but

54:52

the thing is I look at the stock market

54:54

for Christ's like God what's the problem

54:56

yeah but that but that's why that's

54:59

that's how psychology actually works so

55:01

people would be after 2008 people would

55:05

have thought it would be great to invest

55:07

because everything is cheaper that would

55:09

be the logical thing right yeah but

55:11

instead people run as fast as they can

55:15

and sell things at fire sale prices

55:19

because they think everything is gonna

55:22

stay forever yeah guys code the

55:27

feast and famine yeah I guess it's

55:29

determined in Australia right yeah

55:31

exactly

55:32

bloody earth my recent fam and I you

55:35

talked about that there were two things

55:37

that has really impacted you and the

55:40

first thing was your father saying going

55:43

to university or studying and then

55:46

taking a job and then starting and what

55:48

was the second thing and so the the

55:51

second thing and I'd say this is from an

55:55

investor of ours Keith Anderson who's

55:59

founded Blackrock and I think it's the

56:04

world's biggest asset management fund so

56:06

I think they have like four trillion

56:08

dollars that they invest in shares

56:12

I think three or four times Sweden's GDP

56:15

essentially so insane amounts but he's a

56:19

very clever guy and he told me that

56:23

preparedness for opportunity and I think

56:27

that sums it up very nice that it's it's

56:29

there's a lot of luck in there of course

56:32

you know and succeeding but but

56:34

ultimately preparedness for opportunity

56:37

and what that means is I think all of us

56:40

if you're thinking about starting a

56:41

business or if you're thinking about one

56:43

day I would like to run a med tech

56:48

company or whatever it is an art gallery

56:51

you know if you take a step back you can

56:55

look at the pieces that need to be in

56:57

place for you to succeed with that if

56:59

you want to run a med tech company well

57:02

it's probably a good idea to have a bit

57:04

of knowledge in that field it's also

57:07

probably good to know how to lay a

57:09

budget or a projection or raise capital

57:11

or negotiate with wealthy people who

57:15

want to take your business or hire

57:17

people or fire people listen to the last

57:19

episode negotiating with billionaires

57:22

with their own divisions yeah yeah

57:24

that's exactly that a great tip I will

57:27

but yes so puzzling I like laying out

57:30

all of the skills that you need to

57:32

accumulate and then setting him out

57:35

putting those pieces in place whether

57:37

it's taking a language course here or

57:40

running a little company on the side

57:42

just to learn how it's done

57:44

because then when you have that it's

57:46

like you know you built this platform I

57:50

promise you one day that idea the

57:52

perfect idea the perfect opportunity the

57:55

perfect person will come like like a

57:57

little leaf just and just land in this

58:03

web that you already built of all those

58:05

skills you need and then you can't stop

58:07

yourself so people are like hey you know

58:10

I should use a start with yep stir it

58:13

was like I had everything I needed

58:15

the idea was perfect there was no chance

58:18

I could ever not have done it like I

58:21

just had to go with it

58:24

I'll leave you with one thing we do at

58:26

yep stir which I think can be used in a

58:29

smaller scale and we call it the CEO of

58:34

what so it's basically it's a it's a

58:38

concept where I can't be CEO of

58:42

everything you know like we're all CEOs

58:46

of something and so we started we got

58:48

all these wooden bricks out and we

58:51

started writing up all of the areas of

58:53

responsibility we had in our company

58:55

like social media recruiting onboarding

59:00

website yeah security whatever and then

59:05

we spent a like literally six hours in

59:08

front of the fireplace with a whole team

59:10

out in the archipelago and every piece

59:16

was held up and said who's the CEO of

59:19

this and it was a brick yeah it was a

59:22

wooden brick we're still on our desks

59:25

and then people would point to who they

59:27

thought was the most suitable CEO of

59:29

that and then we would discuss and then

59:32

somebody would would have that and then

59:34

as we grow you know if we look at my

59:37

desk I had very many of these bricks so

59:41

so it became very clear also for me that

59:42

this isn't sustainable so as we grow

59:44

somebody else will be taking on some of

59:47

these bricks that's a good thing I like

59:50

that I like the like the analog hipster

59:54

feeling of that yeah it becomes real

59:56

yeah I feel the weight of the brick

59:59

exactly I will take care of this you

60:01

should have like you should have real

60:03

brick so you can as many as you can

60:06

carry not more than you can carry

60:10

dangerous there you know you don't want

60:12

to feel like it's the worst job on the

60:14

world you know here's a bomb I like the

60:18

the way of having it physical because

60:20

you can also give it to in someone and

60:22

when it's when this is on my desk like

60:25

okay I know that I have new business

60:27

sales as my thing yeah okay then I know

60:31

this is mine and it's on my desk

60:33

it's really then I can give it is really

60:37

also nice today

60:38

it to someone I'll give it to Walter

60:40

yeah even though you're not in about in

60:42

a digital document is like which version

60:44

of the document you only have one

60:46

version of your desk where where is the

60:49

breakthrough hold importance of the

60:53

brick is also that it's not just

60:55

accountability you know it's not just

60:57

that you're the one who's responsible

60:59

for making sure it happens it's also you

61:02

have the authority that you make the

61:04

decisions and this is important and I

61:06

think that's a lot what my parents

61:08

lacked that they would give out you know

61:10

you're responsible for it but then they

61:13

would ultimately always want to be

61:14

involved in every decision which is like

61:18

this is 99% of entrepreneurs you know

61:20

like letting go and just seeing what

61:23

happens super important Jeff Bezos of

61:27

Amazon has a hugely brick solace nobody

61:33

has a great point which is he says

61:36

disagree and commit and what he means by

61:41

that is you know you have to have

61:42

conversations where everybody like you

61:45

can disagree with something like you

61:48

think we should be going to the left I

61:49

think we should be going to the right we

61:50

have a good discussion about it but then

61:53

somebody needs to say like okay I

61:55

disagree but I commit fully you know

61:58

let's let's do what you think here or

62:00

the other way around and say like okay I

62:02

know you guys don't agree with me on

62:06

this but are you prepared to gamble can

62:08

you disagree and commit to doing this

62:10

like to bring people along because if

62:13

you're always working towards 90 or 100

62:16

percent certainty in your decisions

62:18

you're way too slow you have to be able

62:20

to take decisions when you were at 70

62:22

percent something to keep the pace up if

62:27

I want to leave you with another tip

62:29

it's actually a philosophy called

62:32

stoicism and I'm a fan yeah great okay

62:36

well I'm amazed that it's starting to

62:39

pop up here and there but that has a lot

62:41

of thoughts around those kinds of things

62:43

like putting yourself in yeah somewhat

62:46

tricky situation you know like taking a

62:48

super cold shower or like getting up

62:50

super early like doing

62:51

slightly unpleasant things it wakes

62:54

parts of ourselves and we appreciate the

62:58

the status quo a whole lot better yeah

63:00

and also to to meditate on or just think

63:03

think about basically like how it could

63:06

have been yeah right now to be grateful

63:09

for what you haven't exactly are they

63:11

going to kill you know then you have no

63:14

problems yeah yeah what if I die

63:17

tomorrow you know well yeah I do that

63:19

yeah that thinking about that every now

63:22

and that depends who you ask

63:24

yeah yes and if you're in the in the pit

63:27

or what it was here in the hole the hole

63:29

I think another thing that I try and do

63:33

a lot is actually to listen to myself

63:36

like sure I am happy now I'm upbeat I'm

63:39

not always like that and when I'm like

63:43

super focused or analytical or I'm I'm

63:46

in that mind state then I'm not best at

63:49

the office because people can get a bit

63:52

worried they're like ah Jacob is usually

63:53

so happy and you know saying let's go

63:56

pay ping-pong and let's take a walk and

63:58

and now he's just sitting there and

63:59

looks angry in front of his computer so

64:02

actually listening to myself and saying

64:05

hey team I'll be working from home in

64:07

the morning you know I'm here on slack

64:09

if you need me I think that's very

64:12

important to not like either be a

64:15

machine in that way but you know if if

64:18

if you're not feeling it or you know

64:21

listen to yourself listen to your body

64:23

maybe one day you need literally ten

64:25

hours of sleep and giving yourself that

64:29

yeah and be kind to yourself yeah

64:30

exactly exactly

64:32

be kind to yourself yeah yeah I

64:34

sometimes when I have my worst days I

64:37

don't have bad days that often but what

64:39

I do I had one yesterday I think or a

64:42

day before to then just step out and say

64:45

two things the first thing is just okay

64:47

be kind to yourself now and the second

64:49

one is and I tell Julia this all the

64:52

time this is great for for you getting

64:53

married by the way to not try to solve

64:57

big problems when you feel bad really

65:01

bad day stick to the small problems

65:03

and if you have really good advice yeah

65:05

do the big problems when you have a good

65:07

day

65:07

that's really good advice actually it's

65:09

often when you have the bad days that

65:11

you want to like really get into the

65:13

massive issues you won't solve you know

65:15

exactly the footlong baguette

65:24

natural thing to do is when you feel bad

65:26

you get scared and when you get scared

65:28

you start trying to solve the apps the

65:30

biggest problems in the world yeah you

65:33

know so that's that's a good advice I

65:36

think so I think one before we start

65:40

winding this to an end yeah and I think

65:43

I'm speaking for both of us that this

65:45

has been insanely fun this episode

65:48

recording this I'm very happy to meet

65:53

the what do you think about is is it

65:56

importing this what's in the water

65:58

initiative do you think of supercharging

66:00

entrepreneurship and and why do you

66:03

think it's important and you have any

66:05

advice what advice do you have for me in

66:07

water look I actually it sounds like I'm

66:11

being snobby now but I actually get a

66:12

lot of requests for for speaking at

66:15

things and and and different things and

66:17

I turn a lot of them down and because I

66:20

have to but this initiative is unique I

66:23

really like the approach that you're

66:25

taking with the entrepreneurship it's

66:28

something that we're burning for we're

66:31

working on the same cause yep stir young

66:33

entrepreneurs you know unlocking that

66:36

energy is so important that's how we

66:38

change society because it's a root cause

66:40

issue you know it's it's where things

66:43

start and if we solve that

66:45

entrepreneurship problem we'll then yeah

66:47

we're gonna solve medicine problems

66:49

we're gonna solve transportation

66:50

problems and health and all of these

66:52

things but we need to start at the core

66:55

so that made me really excited and yeah

66:59

of course the other thing is that you

67:01

two guys are yeah just great great team

67:04

so really looked forward to coming over

67:06

here great and do you have any good

67:08

advice for us going forward you're you

67:10

are obviously a great entrepreneur so

67:12

what do you think we should do good

67:14

question

67:16

well so the pod space to me is quite new

67:20

and so and I can't say that I have lots

67:24

of like competitive marketing strategies

67:26

and you're both marketing specialists so

67:28

you should be great at this but now I

67:32

think stick to what stick to you you

67:35

know stick to what you do best which is

67:38

these really candid relaxed

67:42

conversations with really like cool

67:45

people that are different in different

67:47

ways and I think you do that really well

67:50

and that's that's unique so don't don't

67:53

start going off in different sides but

67:56

yeah stick to a winning concept great

67:59

thank you so much thank you guys thank

68:02

you so much for coming yeah I I think we

68:04

probably want you back at another point

68:06

just to keep talking about all this

68:08

amazing stuff and also just that we want

68:09

you in the studio because we like you

68:11

yeah we'd love to be back let's get some

68:14

hugs in there thank you for listening to

68:18

what's in the water

68:19

our ultimate goal with this podcast is

68:22

the supercharge entrepreneurship in

68:24

Scandinavia in the world to create the

68:27

conditions for prosperity over the next

68:29

25 years if you like this podcast and

68:34

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68:36

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68:39

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68:46

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68:49

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68:54

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68:57

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68:59

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69:02

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69:04

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69:06

FM you can also email us at hello at

69:11

what's in the water

69:12

FM again thanks for listening and we

69:15

will see you again next week for a new

69:17

episode of what

69:19

in the water

69:20

[Music]