Saving the World With Capitalism With Summa Equity Co-founder Jenny Keisu

Jenny Keisu-CoverArt_opt.jpg

Jenny Keisu is one of the founders of Summa Equity, a private equity firm that invests in companies in line with the UN's 17 sustainable development goals. In other words, where a good purpose is an integral part of the actual business model, and not just as a CSR-add on that is so prevalent today. We discuss a lot of things, among them the somewhat counter-intuitive insight that not only can you make money while saving the world, but making money can be a means of saving the world in its own right. Tune in to this fascinating episode to find out how. 

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Transcript

Note: This is an auto-generated transcript that will butcher words and names sometimes (Our favorite is when our guest Johannes Cullberg became “Your Hummus Cool Bye”). The format is not optimized for reading, but for searching for specific segments. Hence the timestamps etc. Happy searching!

00:01

welcome back to the what's in the water

00:04

podcast where we meet some of the

00:06

world's most inspiring role models to

00:09

help supercharge entrepreneurship in

00:12

Scandinavia and the world I am Walter

00:16

nesland and I'm here with my co-host

00:18

Johan hey Bert are you today Yann

00:21

I'm great especially since we have Jenny

00:24

Casey with us here today

00:26

jen is one of the founders of suma

00:28

equity a private equity company with 15

00:31

billion under management that invests

00:34

only in companies that are in line with

00:36

the UN's

00:37

17 sustainable development goals

00:40

basically their entire business is about

00:43

using capitalism and value creation as a

00:46

tool to save the world yes and this is

00:49

an important episode because it

00:51

describes something that is not

00:53

immediately intuitive that not only can

00:56

you make money while saving the world

00:58

you can also save the world because

01:01

you're making money because that's how

01:03

you can attract the big investments and

01:06

focus them on saving our planet it is

01:09

also arguably the only way to finance

01:12

the innovations that will be necessary

01:13

for us to achieve that goal on the scale

01:16

that we need to do it it's not a

01:19

compromise it's win-win

01:21

it will talk much more about that in

01:24

this episode yes we talk a lot about

01:27

optimism in this podcast and how we

01:29

don't see the mass unemployment as the

01:32

obvious consequence of automation and

01:35

a.m. instead we see resources being

01:38

freed up with the potential to solve the

01:41

greatest challenges of our time

01:43

Jenny Casey and suma equity is a prime

01:46

example of this type of optimistic

01:49

thinking that she is so grab a cup of

01:53

coffee and sharpen your senses and we

01:55

bring you Jenny Casey

01:58

[Music]

02:13

[Applause]

02:13

[Music]

02:21

you were very hard to find there's

02:25

nothing on you I've searched the

02:27

internet there's almost nothing yours

02:29

you're really a secretive personality I

02:32

like to focus on what I'm good at and I

02:34

don't particularly enjoy taking photos

02:37

or being interviewed I know that some

02:39

people really get energy I know that I

02:40

don't I asked around and there are

02:43

almost no interviews with you know how

02:46

did you how come you decided to come on

02:49

what's in the water well you tried very

02:52

hard to come in to me and you convinced

02:56

me you know you were on a journey to

02:58

save the world through entrepreneurship

02:59

we were not journey to save the world

03:01

through private equity investment and

03:03

investing in companies so when when you

03:06

went on to save the world through I

03:08

couldn't say no good good I'm glad to

03:11

hear that I think actually think that

03:12

there's something about because I've

03:14

heard it before I've heard some people

03:15

say it before that they kind of want to

03:17

focus on what they're doing and not be

03:19

in the spotlight but there's something

03:21

to inspiring other people that I think

03:24

is much more important now than ever

03:26

yeah I can I can definitely agree with

03:29

that and and I should say that we at

03:33

Summa we were actually trying to be

03:34

inspiring other people to do the same

03:36

because we think that if you are to save

03:40

the world and do that through

03:41

investments you know it's not enough to

03:43

do it yourself because you can only have

03:45

that much impact right with your own

03:46

portfolio so we're trying to deliver

03:49

better returns than anyone else

03:51

and telling that everyone else will look

03:53

at us and say what are they doing and if

03:55

they see that we invest in companies

03:56

that can solve global challenges they

03:59

will probably also do that regardless if

04:01

they really believe in sustainability or

04:03

not but they will do it if they think

04:04

that it can enhance their returns so I

04:06

think that is the only way to change the

04:09

financial sector so this is what we're

04:11

doing why we're doing what we do so we

04:13

are out you know we talk with a lot of

04:15

other people in industry and you would

04:18

see that I'm actually from time to time

04:20

appearing on panels and and

04:22

speaking you know within the financial

04:24

sector but I rarely do it you know to

04:27

the general Society

04:29

so maybe the name urinate the name of

04:31

your company Summa similar equity which

04:33

means some in English but it could be

04:36

role-model equity good Ivan it's

04:39

actually really very thoughtful

04:42

in terms of the name one of my

04:45

co-founders Reina Rindell he he pitched

04:49

the idea that we should be called Summa

04:51

equity and we went through a number of

04:52

names before that that we could have

04:54

have it or not and the idea is the sum

04:57

of everything and equity can be equality

05:00

and also some samaram in lessons and you

05:04

know it's sort of when you present your

05:06

thesis about something and our thesis is

05:08

that you can invest to solve global

05:10

challenges so we figure that the name

05:12

actually you know captured what we're

05:14

doing at some extent you know it's just

05:17

not just a name it's a name that we

05:19

thought very carefully about why is it

05:22

important for you to solve global

05:24

challenges a couple of things first of

05:27

all I am a small-town girl very

05:29

purpose-driven I grew up in a very

05:33

loving stable family with strong social

05:37

values it's always been important for me

05:39

you know social responsibility broadly

05:41

and then secondly you know if you look

05:45

at where we are today we in ten just

05:48

over ten years we will know whether this

05:50

planet will exist long-term or not so

05:52

now the only thing that is important is

05:54

to do everything you can in order to

05:57

make sure that we have a planet that our

05:59

kids can live on and what would you say

06:00

is the most important thing that and it

06:02

will decide if we do have a planet to

06:05

live on

06:06

well it is if we can manage to adjust

06:09

the way we live the way we you know not

06:11

just what we are doing but what all

06:13

companies are doing you need to figure

06:16

out a way to recycle to emit less co2

06:21

you need to figure out a way to reduce

06:24

healthcare costs you need to figure out

06:25

the way to handle all the people that

06:29

will lose their jobs when technology is

06:31

enhancing them further so there's tens

06:34

of things we need to figure out then we

06:35

don't have that

06:36

years to do that so everyone need to

06:38

change now when this is why we are doing

06:40

some equity we talked about before when

06:43

I first met you about how one way of

06:46

solving these problems is to do it

06:48

through some kind of charity and

06:49

nonprofit organizations and that kind of

06:51

thing but we talked about how that is

06:55

kind of difficult to do in a way you

06:57

have to balance like you're not you

06:58

can't make money you can't lose money

07:00

either you're kind of balancing in the

07:02

in the middle and the other way of doing

07:05

it is creating companies that do make

07:08

money and there are great for the

07:10

investors in financial terms but that

07:12

also solve problems and that becomes a

07:15

sustainable way of doing it because that

07:17

will feed itself and it will also

07:19

attract new capital from other people

07:22

that want to be part of it and your

07:25

entire company's based on that idea

07:27

right yeah tell us a little bit about

07:29

how that came about

07:30

and so basically in 2015 I think

07:33

everyone has heard of the Paris meeting

07:35

and the Paris agreement where all the

07:38

global leaders of the world designed

07:40

them these are the 17 global challenges

07:42

we have and that we need to fix and then

07:44

all countries decided that we'll do

07:46

everything we can to get there from my

07:49

perspective it's not only politicians

07:52

that needs to figure it out and central

07:55

leaders and politicians they they are

07:56

struggling today so we need probably to

07:59

get all the companies world wealthy

08:01

fittest instead and so we look at those

08:06

17 global goals and we try to invest in

08:10

companies that solve those so if you

08:13

have a companies that can contribute to

08:16

improve health and well-being or to

08:19

reduce co2 or you know you need to

08:22

figure out to do all of that and you do

08:24

it through investing in companies that

08:26

improve of those while you know growing

08:28

faster than others using technology to

08:31

growth and and you know just at the end

08:35

of the day making better returns and

08:37

that is really why those companies will

08:40

excel because if you're doing something

08:41

that you're just both good at from a

08:43

financial perspective and from a

08:45

sustainability perspective there'll be

08:47

so much more powerful because you know

08:48

attract capital you

08:49

grow foster and we will see a change

08:51

much faster there's one interview with

08:54

you on the internet on the entire yes

08:56

okay I'm not sure which one that is in

08:59

that one interview you're talking about

09:01

how one one hat one part of saving the

09:06

world basically it's about protecting

09:08

value and and that I guess is what the

09:12

nonprofits are doing and mostly and and

09:15

politicians to some extent and the other

09:19

way the other part of it is to create

09:21

value so while while saving the world

09:24

you create value and that's I think it's

09:28

such an interesting way of looking at it

09:29

because that's kind of the essence of

09:31

how to build a company that where you're

09:34

not making money and and kind of trying

09:36

to have a CSR department or something

09:39

but you're actually had your core

09:40

business idea is good for the world

09:42

and creating value at the same time so

09:45

that I guess it's the core of having a

09:46

commercial shall we say a sustainable

09:50

company a real sustainable company yeah

09:52

and I think that many companies when

09:54

they look at sustainability one way or

09:56

another there's two ways of looking at

09:58

it most people try to protect capital

10:00

and protect value we've already built up

10:03

so trying to ensure that you don't end

10:05

up in a scandal or pollute groundwater

10:07

or end up in a corruption scandal or

10:10

something like that because that would

10:12

just deteriorate your reputation and

10:14

then you would end up getting fines and

10:16

then similar so that is what most people

10:18

focus on and then you have CSR on the

10:20

side where you are you know giving away

10:22

money to charitable causes and worst

10:25

case Nouri that doesn't have anything to

10:27

do with your business or it's not

10:28

enhancing your business in any way it's

10:29

just something you do that is nice and

10:31

what we're trying to do with our

10:33

companies is that of course is you could

10:35

protect your the value you have but

10:37

that's basically license to operate

10:38

everyone needs to do that you know you

10:40

as a person you know a company that is

10:42

very intuitive but what most people

10:44

don't get is that you can use

10:47

sustainability to drive the value and to

10:51

enhance that and you can use it to find

10:53

new ways of getting revenues in you can

10:57

take out cost and your system you can

11:01

find a way

11:02

innovating and what you need to innovate

11:04

and when you think about it this is

11:06

really if you're going to be long-term

11:08

sustainable you're not just doing that

11:09

for environment you're also doing it in

11:11

order for your company to be able to

11:12

sustain so it's also a way of making

11:14

sure you are not getting disrupted what

11:16

will happen to this industry in ten

11:18

years let's say that we find a way to

11:20

reduce co2 to solve all these 17 goals

11:24

in that case we will have a circular

11:26

economy right we will have to because we

11:28

are every person today is generating

11:31

over the lifetime 13 tons of waste 95%

11:36

is not recycled so 5% is recycled and if

11:40

we're going from 7 to 10 billion people

11:42

you can just see that you know you would

11:44

need to change into circular economy and

11:47

if you can see that tremendous change in

11:50

the world where will your company fit in

11:52

there are three types of companies

11:54

companies that make the world worse yes

11:57

in terms of these these goals companies

12:01

that are pretty much neutral and

12:02

companies that make sure that we solve

12:06

these problems that's how we look at it

12:08

is

12:10

the companies that are making the world

12:13

worse how long do they have oh it

12:16

depends I think change we've seen the

12:18

change can happen overnight right you've

12:19

seen that in tech you seen it in quite a

12:21

few areas so it can happen very soon

12:24

which I hope it could take years no one

12:27

knows but no one it's like always just

12:30

before you get disrupted you don't have

12:31

a clue about it right right so hopefully

12:33

it will happen soon if you ask me and

12:36

the type of companies that you think are

12:38

the ones that are going that that are

12:41

the worst for the world what type of

12:44

companies do you think that are I think

12:46

companies that emits a lot of co2

12:48

without well if you if you're going to

12:50

do that you need to improve seriously on

12:52

every other goal right if you meet a lot

12:54

of co2 your company is producing weapons

12:56

you have companies doing lots of things

12:58

that is not sustainable so you just need

13:01

to look at those 17 global goals figure

13:04

out which one two or three are connected

13:06

to your business you need to figure out

13:08

how can you drive your business so that

13:11

the business is growing in a very

13:13

successful way while at the same time

13:15

improving on those I mentioned how many

13:18

ways to are generating right so we have

13:20

a couple companies within the waste and

13:22

recycling sector so one of them is

13:25

cetera I'm sure you have in stock

13:27

console you know which companies are

13:28

terrorized you can basically see the

13:29

green bags all over the city right yeah

13:31

tell us about that for the listeners

13:33

yeah okay so basically cetera is

13:35

collecting building waste so if you if

13:41

you redo your bathroom or kitchen or

13:43

something like that you need to get out

13:45

the waste somewhere you since we live in

13:48

Stockholm it's a large city it's growing

13:50

by the day so it's very tricky to get

13:52

big containers on the payments so

13:55

instead you have these foldable bags

13:56

you picked a building waste in that you

13:59

put the bag on the street you can order

14:03

pickup you can actually do that through

14:04

an app so it's more like more or less

14:05

you know before waste and so you you put

14:10

it on the street so Tara comes on pick

14:12

it up so they actually get paid in both

14:14

ends they get paid when they pick the

14:16

bag up and then they take you to their

14:18

sorting sites and then they sort it and

14:20

so Tara has a 95 percent recycling rate

14:22

so what they get in

14:23

recycle 25% I think roughly is reused

14:28

one way or another you get out metal

14:29

woods and you can use it again and then

14:32

the rest goes to incinerate so at least

14:33

you know are you getting heat out of it

14:35

that we can heat their buildings with so

14:38

that is a company that you know it

14:39

improves on lower co2 emissions because

14:43

you are cycling and you know you don't

14:45

put anything down through ground a

14:46

landfill you recycle you can get with

14:49

the material out of it so what they're

14:51

doing they get paid when they pick it up

14:53

and they also get paid when they can

14:54

still have positive fractions that you

14:56

can do something else with and when we

14:58

acquired cetera they had revenues and

15:00

maybe 200 million or something like that

15:02

they now have revenues of 1 billion so

15:05

it's grown five times since we acquired

15:07

them three years ago I think they're EBT

15:09

a is four times or something like that

15:11

so you can easily see that while this

15:13

company is significantly approving

15:15

improving on the UN SDGs

15:17

we're also you know it's a very

15:19

successful company we will make a little

15:21

money when we sell the company or listed

15:23

on the stock exchange or somehow that's

15:24

you need to figure out how that is

15:26

connected so Tara makes more money when

15:28

they are recycling so this is how you

15:30

need to figure out how to tie your

15:31

business to the UN STDs this is the

15:34

reason why we're doing some we're not

15:36

working for a non-profit because we

15:38

think that if we can show the financial

15:40

industry that this is a way of making

15:42

good money while at the same time saving

15:44

the world we think that even if you

15:46

don't care about saving the world or you

15:48

know you know you just want to make

15:50

money if you see that you can make as

15:51

much or even more money doing that you

15:53

will actually change and we need

15:54

everyone to change even those who don't

15:56

believe that it's worthwhile we need

15:58

everyone to change otherwise this will

15:59

be really tricky and it's I mean the

16:01

message in this episode if you just take

16:03

away one thing from this episode I think

16:05

it's that it's not making money while

16:08

saving the world it's making money

16:09

because you're saving the world exactly

16:11

and this is the kicker saving the world

16:14

because you're making money yeah and I

16:16

think that is a lot of people don't

16:18

realize that I think but it's so

16:20

important to realize that because that's

16:21

the incentive part of it

16:23

and I think still a lot of companies

16:25

like in the constructor we're talking

16:27

about the construction industry a lot of

16:29

companies still do greenwashing because

16:32

they want to look good instead of

16:34

actually putting it inside their

16:36

business model

16:37

absolutely and I think that when they

16:40

hopefully figure out that if you can

16:42

look good while improving your business

16:44

model and actually making more returns

16:47

for your company then you will actually

16:49

change it people just needs to figure

16:51

that out because it's not intuitive I

16:53

didn't know this when I you know started

16:55

working I you know you get this some way

16:58

on the way and and then it's at the

17:02

beginning it's tricky because it's not

17:03

intuitive so if you're a tech company

17:06

you know how do you do that and it might

17:08

be you know you can do something easy

17:10

like you're reducing paper because

17:12

everything is now digital but you can

17:14

also drive a lot of changes through

17:16

compliance for example we have a couple

17:19

portfolio companies that focus on

17:21

chemicals compliance which is

17:23

increasingly important form from an

17:25

environmental perspective so just

17:26

software making it very easy for

17:28

companies to manage their chemicals

17:31

another one that I see go online and

17:34

another one Peguero they are it's

17:36

basically e-invoicing and it's a lot of

17:38

when you do that you reduce corruption

17:41

because you know you don't hand over

17:43

stuff between parties anymore everything

17:45

is done digitally you reduce corruption

17:47

but even more importantly you reduce v80

17:50

leakage and that is tax funding for

17:52

cities that can then be used to

17:54

healthcare or something so if you have a

17:56

70% v80 leakage in your country which

17:59

some countries have especially in

18:00

southern Europe things mean that what

18:03

that is basically there are a lot of

18:06

laws right and telling that you need to

18:08

pay v80 you know transaction so it's

18:11

like 25 percent if you buy something in

18:13

a store is v80 everyone else at right

18:15

mom says yeah so if you if you're not if

18:20

you're cheating on v80 that's money that

18:22

the system doesn't get in so that's

18:24

money that goes to the government and

18:25

then ultimately that is funding you know

18:28

healthcare systems school system etc so

18:30

if you have a huge v80 leakage that you

18:33

know the v80 doesn't come in that is you

18:36

know it's not good for society so that

18:39

is also a way of improving on it but

18:40

it's much less intuitive than recycling

18:42

so you need to look at all the 17 global

18:44

goals figure out which one is connected

18:46

to your business and it might be more or

18:48

less intuitive we need to figure that

18:50

out

18:51

you need to improve of those you can't

18:53

focus on anything and you know if you're

18:54

doing um PRI or other sustainability

18:57

reporting it's a lot of things that

18:59

doesn't make sense for your business and

19:01

then maybe you just get tired because it

19:02

just burdensome but you need to figure

19:04

out the key things that is connected to

19:05

your business and try to see what can

19:08

you do to improve on those and then

19:09

quite often that will lead to new

19:11

revenue streams or that you're improving

19:13

you're not reducing costs and similar so

19:16

it's actually very close connected you

19:18

just need to figure out how to look at

19:19

it and also solving big problems and

19:22

huge projects I mean it would be very

19:24

difficult to start I think a charity and

19:26

say that this charity will now raise

19:29

money to invent a new electric car brand

19:33

for example that would be very difficult

19:35

to do yeah and you won't have to have

19:37

people pouring in capital to in that you

19:39

know on and on again and it might be

19:41

pouring money into a black hole no one

19:43

knows and if you are young and you know

19:45

you don't have the knife to your throat

19:47

the same way if you think the people

19:49

will continue to give you money you need

19:50

to figure out a way to make this

19:52

profitable and that is you know that is

19:55

the key to all startups right and then

19:57

on top of that which many companies I

20:00

think don't consider is that it will

20:02

also get much more easy to recruit

20:04

talent because there's a war out there

20:06

today about talent it's difficult to

20:07

recruit really good people you know the

20:09

best ones can pick and choose between

20:11

which companies they want to work for

20:12

it's it's actually much easier for us

20:15

because we can tell them that if you

20:16

work for us you're actually making the

20:18

world better every day by investing in

20:20

companies are solving global challenges

20:22

and this is the case for any company

20:24

right I mentioned cetera so the CEO of

20:26

cetera Connie Ricci also founded the

20:28

company he still the CEO today you

20:30

should have him on this podcast actually

20:33

because he's just he's just you know

20:35

really incredible he's probably one of

20:37

the best CEOs I ever met he told me a

20:40

year ago maybe so when we have home when

20:43

we have owned cetera for one or two

20:44

years that they can now because you just

20:47

found a way of describing you know why

20:50

to do what they do how they are more

20:52

sustainable at the same time making more

20:55

money so they are fun way to explain

20:57

that nicka didn't explain it too good to

20:58

customers and then it's included in the

21:00

sales pitch and that is also the primary

21:02

sale material today

21:04

is

21:04

actually their sustainability report

21:06

that's what I sell mostly they can

21:08

recruit people that would never have

21:10

gone work for a waste company a few

21:12

years back because they're working for a

21:13

company that's part of solving a massive

21:16

global challenge and this is yeah you

21:18

know it's it's easy to recruit talent if

21:20

you're really you know good at it you

21:22

can use it to drive sales

21:24

you can drive growth you know you just

21:26

need to figure out how to include it in

21:28

your business model it's just the basics

21:30

of entrepreneurship and business is that

21:32

it's if you solve a problem somebody

21:35

will pay you for solving that problem or

21:38

you reward you in some way and I mean we

21:42

do have some enormous problems in the

21:44

world world and and part of those you

21:47

are working on solving and we were

21:49

talking about when we started this

21:50

podcast we were talking about okay so

21:52

what's gonna happen when we have

21:54

automation and AI I mean it's already

21:57

happening people say that there's gonna

21:59

be a maybe a recession coming and we

22:02

think that that's gonna be a great

22:04

opportunity for companies to execute

22:07

those automation plans and then when the

22:11

economy is coming back the jobs won't so

22:15

if that happens the the pessimist would

22:18

say okay so we're gonna have mass

22:20

unemployment and the optimists would say

22:22

Wow lots of resources getting released

22:25

here to solve problems because there are

22:27

a lot of problems out there mm-hmm and I

22:30

think that's a key thing that people

22:32

miss that okay so if we have all these

22:33

problems why are we talking about mass

22:35

unemployment I mean let's go solve those

22:38

problems and use these resources for

22:40

that and that basic like that basic

22:43

philosophy of looking at things in an

22:45

optimistic way versus a pessimistic way

22:47

is something we just need to do

22:49

otherwise we're screwed and that's gonna

22:51

be part of I mean are we gonna have a

22:53

world in ten years or not you know I

22:55

think optimism is just one of the

22:57

absolute most important things for that

22:59

to be the good scenario yeah I think

23:02

that too and I think for me personally

23:04

that is one of the most important things

23:06

for me is that I'm try to always look at

23:09

things from the right side and this is

23:11

also why instead of if you're looking at

23:13

you know what came out at a Paris

23:14

agreement these seventeen global goals

23:16

you can look at them and see that

23:18

the world is doomed you know there's no

23:20

way we're kind of figuring all these 17

23:23

out or you can look at them and see that

23:24

hey okay 17 global goals equals 17

23:29

global opportunities right so you just

23:31

need to figure out how to turn it into

23:32

an opportunity and and you need to run

23:35

with it that's basically what you do you

23:37

need to figure out a way of looking at

23:39

it from a different angle yeah I mean

23:41

the pessimists are not going to save the

23:43

world you know you were one of the

23:47

youngest it's not the youngest lawyer

23:50

ever in Sweden is that true I think when

23:53

I became when I got recruited my name is

23:57

faltering I think it was a young as

23:58

lawyer they have ever recruited and I

23:59

think when I entered into the Bar

24:02

Association which is in Swedish becoming

24:04

an advocate I think back then I was

24:06

probably the youngest look out there as

24:09

well and that's where your career

24:11

started yes and what happened then I

24:15

instead I left my name is Watling which

24:17

is the largest law firm in the Nordic

24:20

area I was working with by helping

24:21

clients to buy and sell companies and

24:25

then I instead went to work for Nordic

24:29

capital trying to instead of just being

24:33

a consultant helping people do stuff

24:35

that they wanted to do instead of trying

24:36

to see what if I get on the inside and

24:38

good myself decide so I went to no the

24:42

capital another private equity investor

24:44

one of the leading ones in the Nordic

24:47

region and and if you look at their

24:48

health care practice I would argue that

24:50

a or one of the leading ones European so

24:54

I went over there and starting to work

24:57

on investments from that side instead I

25:00

built up the legal department at Nordic

25:02

capital I built up the ESG program it's

25:05

not a captain and this is where it all

25:07

started for me with Zuma was the ESG is

25:11

an abbreviation for environmental social

25:14

responsibility and governance so I

25:17

started to look at this back in 2013

25:20

maybe when I was at Nordic capital and

25:22

how we could you know integrate that

25:24

into the portfolio in the way we were

25:27

acquiring companies and and then you

25:29

know it all no one really did that

25:33

so I try to learn and understand how to

25:36

get it right and it's easy to start with

25:39

what we just mentioned you know

25:40

protecting value so that was where it

25:42

all started but and I then I started to

25:44

understand that what if we can also

25:46

include and hongting value and using

25:48

these things to drive a growth and to

25:50

create Purpose Driven companies and if

25:53

we could you know attract more talent by

25:55

doing this because I'm a millennial one

25:57

of the oldest ones but you know if

26:02

you're a millennial you don't want to

26:03

work for a company there will be number

26:05

three in Europe and five years you want

26:08

to solve the global problems right you

26:10

want to have a purpose so I started to

26:12

figure this out and and then around that

26:16

time when I really gotten you know this

26:21

idea that maybe you can do it in a

26:23

different way and all the capital is a

26:24

really large institution it's tricky to

26:26

you know change something you know why

26:28

not change something if it's not broken

26:30

and and then one of my co-founders Asuma

26:35

called Rainier in Dahl and he said do

26:38

you wanna you know leave no to capital

26:40

and set up a firm together with me and

26:42

you know just to save the world instead

26:44

by doing private equity so that's where

26:47

it all started for me since that is that

26:49

your tag line by the way saving the

26:50

world through private equity it's

26:54

probably investing to solve global

26:56

challenges but it's another way you know

26:58

saying when did you start I left North

27:03

capital to start working on Summa in

27:04

2015 but you know technically we found

27:08

it so my in 2016 and and it was kind of

27:11

you asked me before you know where are

27:13

there any big struggles along the way

27:15

and I think the biggest dragon was

27:17

trying to convince him as globally that

27:19

it was possible to make money while

27:20

saving the world because no one else has

27:22

tried that pitch before I think at least

27:25

they haven't heard it there's a lot of

27:27

people doing impact and CSR and charity

27:31

and there's a lot of people you know

27:32

making money a pretty equity kind of way

27:34

but no one had tried to combine them

27:37

before and and arena and I traveled in

27:41

Europe and US and try to convince a lot

27:44

of big investors that you know invest in

27:46

Las Vegas

27:46

be really good returns and at the same

27:48

time yourself is saving the world and I

27:50

was of course tricky because no one had

27:52

tried to do that before and a lot of

27:54

people didn't think it was possible so

27:56

what we did is we we acquired a company

28:00

cetera and said okay so this is the kind

28:04

of company we will acquire they said

28:05

what we'll do with it then we could

28:07

prove something we had something to show

28:09

instead of just showing a powerpoint

28:11

presentation trying to convince them

28:12

that we would have thought about it we

28:14

really said okay so we'll do it and then

28:17

you can see and then you can invest in

28:18

us so that was actually how it all

28:20

started nothing that is important if

28:22

you're looking at entrepreneurship you

28:23

can't just have a great idea and tell

28:25

people what you will do and then expect

28:27

them to give you capital you need to

28:29

show them what you're doing you need to

28:32

prove that and you need to have jumped

28:34

into the pool yourself already you can't

28:36

be on the sidelines and say can we jump

28:38

in together holding hands and you jump

28:40

in first so I think that was something

28:42

important that we did so we did it early

28:45

2016 and early 2017 we closed our first

28:50

fund with almost 5 billion SEK so that's

28:55

I think a lot of people would think that

28:56

you know if you look at sustainable

28:59

funds it's a compromise compromising on

29:02

your returns to to to have a good

29:04

conscience basically and you are trying

29:07

to prove that it's not a compromise it's

29:09

actually a better product a better fund

29:11

absolutely and and so far we haven't

29:14

sold any companies yet we're a long-term

29:17

investor so we typically hold companies

29:19

for five years or something like that it

29:21

could be shorter could be longer but you

29:23

can look at the valuation because we

29:24

need to value our companies every year

29:26

and you can see that every quarter that

29:28

the value is going up and if you look at

29:30

the valuation of our fund

29:31

we're actually top quartile globally so

29:35

that's at least in terms of valuation

29:36

that's that's actually how good we are

29:38

at the moment so you can see that we are

29:41

actually making as much money as anyone

29:44

else even even better by doing this

29:48

stuff investing in companies that's all

29:50

global challenges yeah and since 2016

29:54

yeah I mean it's 2019 is the beginning

29:57

of 2019 now so since 2016 you

30:00

fifteen billion almost five plus almost

30:04

seven and then on top of that little

30:06

co-investment money so yeah roughly

30:08

that's cool and I think what one of the

30:12

things that's interesting I think also

30:15

in the investment world is it's easy a

30:18

lot of people can can talk and pitch

30:20

what's interesting is look how people

30:23

move their feet yeah actually what what

30:25

happens over time with the investor

30:29

friends of mine they say okay can you

30:31

show really good returns over a period

30:33

of time then also pretty darn quickly a

30:37

lot of money comes flowing in and I

30:40

think that's very cool about that it's

30:43

actually worth a high so obviously you

30:51

look for companies that are trying to

30:53

save the world but what are the other

30:55

factors you're looking for when deciding

30:58

on investment so we start out with these

31:01

are global goals we boil that down to

31:04

three areas which is resource efficiency

31:08

and within that you have aquaculture

31:11

which is you know sustainable meat

31:12

production you have energy efficiency

31:14

waste management is a big area for us we

31:18

have what we call changing demographics

31:20

as the second area mostly healthcare

31:22

could also be education and the last

31:25

areas tick enabled businesses and then

31:28

it depends a lot because there's a lot

31:29

of tech companies that are as you

31:31

mentioned before you one other you know

31:32

making the world worse or neutrals you

31:34

need to find the positive ones so we're

31:37

doing a lot of b2b software within that

31:39

and and if you look at companies in

31:41

detail we are looking for Purpose Driven

31:44

companies or entrepreneurs that we think

31:47

that we can help accelerate growth

31:49

entailing that we and those companies

31:52

and entrepreneurs will make money while

31:54

actually improving on the global goals

31:56

and hence you know and one way or

31:58

another helping saving the world and and

32:00

obviously you're looking at the team as

32:02

well yes definitely what are you looking

32:04

for in a team we want be team that are

32:07

Purpose Driven that is very important

32:09

for us they are not only there to make

32:11

money or or you know

32:12

having a good status or something like

32:14

that we need team that actually believe

32:16

in in the course they are creative and

32:19

and they are there for a reason because

32:21

I think that is if you look at any

32:23

startup or entrepreneur there is the

32:24

most important we we buy more mature

32:27

companies so we don't invest in startups

32:29

that's too early for us but that is

32:31

where it all started you need someone

32:33

that is Purpose Driven so you could

32:35

invest in us but but do you actually but

32:40

you could invest in maybe that our last

32:41

guest here was extra that could have

32:44

been a company if they were more mature

32:45

company yeah if they were more mature

32:46

company yeah we need to since you

32:49

mentioned we have quite a lot of capital

32:51

so and and we're not a huge team so we

32:54

need to invest as much capital so that

32:57

they depend a lot of time on it as well

32:58

otherwise it would be too scattered

32:59

because we need to help these companies

33:01

a lot so we're typically a team of three

33:04

from our end four or five maybe even

33:06

spending a lot of time on each company

33:08

and we're not a huge team so we need to

33:10

buy sizable companies so it you know

33:13

makes sense for us to spend a lot of

33:14

time on it but but we're growing and

33:18

trying to recruit new people to the team

33:19

and important that we find Purpose

33:22

Driven people otherwise we don't hire so

33:25

as the team grows maybe when it comes to

33:29

advice because there will be a lot of

33:31

entrepreneurs listening to this and

33:34

we've also seen that there are

33:36

journalists listening to this and

33:39

politicians as well if we start with the

33:42

entrepreneurs if you would give

33:44

entrepreneurs wanting to do more good

33:47

what advice would you give them if you

33:50

would say three to five things like do

33:52

this I always say start looking at the

33:55

17 global goals try to figure out you

33:58

know if you if you look at those which

34:01

ones are connected to your business or

34:02

what do you want to do and and then you

34:05

try to look at what why do your company

34:08

exists try to try to just phrase that

34:10

you know why are you here which goal are

34:12

you solving and I think just there will

34:15

you get much more clarity it's easier to

34:17

communicate your ideas to customers to

34:20

investors to everyone and then I think

34:22

you you need to try to explain yourself

34:25

how

34:26

are you solving this problem so why are

34:28

you here how in practice are you doing

34:31

this and I think the most important

34:33

questions is how would you like to do it

34:35

in the future because I think that is

34:38

when you get into sort of disruptive

34:39

thinking and what will happen with this

34:41

sector long term or going forward and

34:44

then you maybe you think about this is

34:46

you know we need to target new customers

34:49

we need to team up with other type of

34:51

companies and other sectors to

34:53

accelerate this growth and to improve

34:55

more on this goal and also maybe we need

34:58

to put a lot of money into innovation in

35:00

R&D; in order to generate more revenues

35:02

two to three years down the line so I

35:04

think really which goal are you here to

35:06

Seoul why do you exist firstly and then

35:09

secondly how are you doing this in

35:11

practice it communicated very clearly to

35:13

you and to everyone else and then figure

35:15

out how you're solving this problem

35:17

today and then next phase how would you

35:21

like sold in the future because you need

35:23

to already now start moving in that

35:24

direction because everything is

35:25

happening so fast these days and

35:27

disruption can happen tomorrow how do

35:30

you stay on top of all the developments

35:32

and technology and everything else I

35:34

probably don't throw you tricky but how

35:37

do you have any best practices of how do

35:39

you like do you have a schedule for like

35:41

now I need to consume news or what's

35:43

going on or every time I mean I can or

35:46

traveling I watch a lot of TED Talks so

35:48

basically and that is like a drug for me

35:50

I will watch a lot of TED Talks a lot of

35:53

interesting you know can be people

35:54

coming out of MIT you or something like

35:56

that you know there's so much

35:58

interesting that you can learn from that

36:00

you get ideas and then you keep digging

36:01

there was also a few really good firms

36:04

releasing reports now in them key people

36:06

how has this digital outlook that you

36:08

can see the top trends from that and we

36:11

also work very closely with a lot of

36:14

advisors that you know cover tech and

36:16

similar and you know you meet a lot of

36:19

startups and even though we don't invest

36:21

in them I quite often take meetings

36:24

anyway because it's good to figure out

36:26

what is what is boiling and what is

36:28

cooking in this industry at the moment

36:30

and and then hopefully I can help them

36:32

give them some advice and then maybe

36:34

they can grow quicker and then we can

36:36

invest in them when they get slightly

36:37

larger so and what is cooking at the

36:39

moment there's a lot of

36:40

I and a lot of things focusing on

36:44

sustainability if we were out 2015 and

36:48

16 when we started you know the global

36:49

goals were really new no one had really

36:51

understood them and and today people are

36:54

so a lot of businesses are actually

36:56

connected so I would say sustainability

36:58

and AI are probably the biggest trends

37:01

at the moment I'm also very interested

37:03

because you say that so Tara's CEO is

37:06

probably one of the best CEOs that

37:08

you've ever met what makes a good CEO of

37:11

this type of company Purpose Driven

37:13

again I feel like I'm repeating myself I

37:15

sound like a broken record no but I

37:17

think you need to be Purpose Driven you

37:18

really need to believe in your mission

37:20

you need to and you need to be you know

37:24

a good person I think that is important

37:26

no one wants to work for an asshole and

37:28

I think the most common reason why

37:31

people quit their jobs is that they have

37:32

a poor boss even though they like the

37:34

business they love what I do you need to

37:36

have good people on the top I guess

37:38

there's a tone from the top the

37:39

leadership strategy so I think you need

37:41

to be a good person you need to be

37:42

Purpose Driven and really believe in

37:44

what you're doing we see from our end

37:47

that personal brands are becoming a much

37:49

more important piece of the puzzle for

37:52

for building company brands so people

37:55

are following people rather than brands

37:56

online for example and you can look at

37:58

companies like X shore it's actually a

38:00

great example where Conrad is a very

38:03

very key part of building the brand for

38:06

example is that something you look for

38:08

in CEOs also well you're the expert on

38:11

branding right I'm not no I think for us

38:16

it's it's much more simple than that we

38:19

look for companies and entrepreneurs

38:20

that improve on their UN sustainable

38:22

development goals that are Purpose

38:24

Driven and and we see that we can help

38:28

them grow very fast and profitable so

38:31

and then it's great if it's someone that

38:33

has a great brand absolutely otherwise

38:35

we might be able to help them get that

38:37

yeah we can help you help them yeah now

38:42

I'm selling it on the show I promise

38:44

never to do that didn't I promise that

38:45

yeah that's that's a bad character thing

38:53

so we started with the advice for the

38:56

entrepreneurs if you would give some

38:58

advice for our dear politicians in

39:04

Scandinavia especially mm-hmm what would

39:07

that be I I think everyone is about the

39:09

you know what do you what do what do you

39:12

want to achieve what is they you know

39:14

what type of behavior do you want to

39:17

drive and encourage and I think that

39:19

given where we are with automation and

39:22

digitization you know most people

39:24

understand that there will be a lot of

39:25

people losing their jobs over time and

39:28

those people need to do something else

39:29

and entrepreneurship is probably the

39:31

best of all for those people and for the

39:34

society and for saving the world because

39:36

if you can create new companies that can

39:38

lead to new jobs and improving on the UN

39:41

sustainable development called that's

39:42

just really good for everyone and for

39:44

the Swedish system because you were

39:46

getting more tax money and people that

39:48

are they are not unemployed and if you

39:50

want to drive that type of change you

39:53

need to put in center in place you can't

39:54

be penalizing intrapreneur because

39:56

creating a company you know it's a huge

39:59

risk it's very costly you spend a lot of

40:02

time on it because you would pour in

40:03

24/7 for maybe one year maybe two you

40:07

maybe even longer and you're taking a

40:10

huge risk from a financial perspective

40:11

maybe even your relationship gets a lot

40:15

of you know damage due to that so you

40:18

need to you cannot penalize people and

40:20

they finally get that up and running you

40:21

need to incentivize them that of course

40:24

you know this is a big risk but you know

40:26

it's worthwhile and maybe there's an tax

40:29

incentive we maybe you can get lower the

40:32

company's tax rate or your tax with the

40:34

more people you can hire because that is

40:36

good for the system so you need to

40:38

figure out a way of incentivizing

40:40

intrapreneurship sand companies growing

40:43

very fast yeah I think a political

40:44

problem of that is something that we

40:46

discussed actually with Katrina gospel

40:48

when she was here she's a neuroscientist

40:51

and we talked we had an entire episode

40:52

on fear and we talked about how the

40:56

brain is primed to like if you look at

40:59

lotteries on TV yeah they only show when

41:02

people win so they don't ever show if

41:04

they would have to show like the right

41:06

ratio of winning and losing there would

41:08

be like several several years of people

41:11

losing in lotteries on TV and then every

41:14

you know 20 years there would be a

41:16

winner or something like that and it's a

41:19

little bit a little bit the same with

41:20

entrepreneurs that you don't see the

41:22

failures on TV or in the media you only

41:24

see the billionaire's and you know

41:26

successful people which is good because

41:29

it inspires people to be entrepreneurs

41:32

in a way but it's maybe a political

41:34

problem in that that's you know if you

41:37

only see the rich entrepreneurs you

41:39

don't understand the risks involved and

41:41

you don't see why these people should

41:44

have a tax break or you know anything

41:46

like that because you can't you don't

41:48

realize what the risk is as a regular

41:50

person looking at all the billionaire

41:52

tech entrepreneurs you know driving

41:54

their Ferraris and I don't I don't know

41:57

I don't know what I want to do here on

41:59

the one hand I would want to show that

42:01

so people understand the risks and and

42:02

would be more appreciative of the heroes

42:05

that entrepreneurs actually are on the

42:07

other hand I don't want to discourage

42:09

people by showing all the failures

42:11

either what do you think about that so I

42:13

think that if I had known all the work

42:16

and all the pain if it had been listed

42:19

the way you're describing it I would

42:21

never have started

42:23

that's what kitty Adler said as well she

42:26

said that well when I looked back after

42:28

selling the company and everything just

42:29

if I would have just worked as an

42:31

employee as a management consultant

42:33

all those years I would have come out it

42:36

would have come out economically the

42:37

same or maybe better you know and and

42:41

that's true for a lot of people I think

42:44

yeah an entrepreneurship isn't for

42:46

everyone and you need to try and

42:48

convince the few that are out there that

42:50

can consider doing that to actually do

42:53

it and I think it's a politician's you

42:55

need people creating new jobs you need

42:57

to figure out all the ways you can

42:58

incentivizing that and I think there is

43:01

a show chosen truth in terms of

43:05

politicians and a lot of people that

43:06

aren't entrepreneurs that entrepreneurs

43:09

do it just so that they can get a big

43:12

bag of money and then buy a ton of

43:15

expensive and not care about anyone

43:18

and I think

43:19

that that said totally just wrong and

43:24

that creates also if people think that

43:27

that are making the decisions of

43:29

creating the incentives or not creating

43:32

the incentives they're not gonna make

43:35

create the incentives because they think

43:37

that people are the entrepreneurs are

43:39

just doing it to for selfish reasons and

43:43

they wouldn't get the vote from the

43:44

people because people think that you

43:45

know basically entrepreneurs are evading

43:47

tax and then driving expensive cars but

43:49

I think just if people would realize the

43:52

entire chain from okay so we're seeing

43:55

automation coming people will be

43:56

unemployed if we do have entrepreneurs

44:00

that can find the problems redirect

44:03

those resources to solving those

44:04

problems preferably globally so we can

44:07

bring in a lot of money into the country

44:09

in the trade balance that would be

44:12

fantastic for everybody reef fantastic

44:15

for the school systems and the

44:16

healthcare systems and the police having

44:18

a resource financed by tax money would

44:21

be just everybody would be so much

44:23

better off and and if people realize

44:26

that that chain of like cause and effect

44:30

that would be amazing because we could

44:33

be a such and such a rich country if we

44:36

just did that all the way and inspired

44:39

people and and rewarded our heroes that

44:41

do this work but instead you read all

44:44

the time about how ok so we need to

44:46

adjust the 312 times so that people they

44:49

found a way to get a little bit lower

44:51

tax we need to get them you know I just

44:54

think that that's a huge work of like

44:57

information that we need to do on our

44:59

end and and the media has a huge

45:01

responsibility here as well I think to

45:03

make sure that this truth because it is

45:06

a truth comes out to the people so

45:07

people can vote with that knowledge yeah

45:09

I think so and I think a lot of people a

45:11

lot of things are actually already in

45:12

place in Sweden we have a great social

45:14

security system so you actually there to

45:17

start your company because even if

45:18

everything goes south and you lose all

45:20

your money you and your family won't be

45:22

left out on the street right we have a

45:24

system ensuring that it will have

45:25

someplace to live your kids will still

45:27

be able to go to school so we have that

45:29

sort of you know floor in place which is

45:32

great

45:33

we have a vibrant startup community I

45:35

think we actually have more startups per

45:37

capita here in Stockholm than in Silicon

45:39

Valley so you have tons of good examples

45:41

good networks we have all of that in

45:43

place already we have so much great

45:45

successes you know we have I think the

45:48

only city in the world with more

45:50

unicorns per capita NASSCOM there's

45:52

Silicon Valley so and you are

45:54

interviewing quite a few of these right

45:55

so I think we have a lot in place

45:58

already we just need to figure out how

46:00

to get even more great people in here

46:03

and it's tricky to move to Stockholm is

46:04

tricky too I get actually allowed to

46:08

stay here it's tricky to find a place to

46:10

live and then when you tell them that oh

46:12

by the way we have really high tax rates

46:14

you know it's great to have everything

46:15

else like you know you could just go to

46:18

good schools and similar but it just

46:20

scares off a lot of people and then you

46:22

need to buy a really expensive apartment

46:25

in Stockholm so you need to make it

46:27

easier on every where you can but a lot

46:30

is already in place and it's great so

46:31

it's not tons of stuff that needs to be

46:33

done either yeah there's a few things

46:35

I'm glad you said that because it

46:37

sounded like I thought everything was

46:38

terrible but it's I agree I mean we are

46:41

the one of the best countries in the

46:42

world to be as an entrepreneur

46:44

absolutely but we also need to make it

46:48

even better

46:48

yeah and for the politicians what can

46:51

they specifically do like what can they

46:54

change I don't have a solution but I

46:56

think you should try to focus on solving

46:58

a way to accessing the markets were

47:01

actually getting a place to stay and in

47:03

Stockholm you know why the weather that

47:05

is renting preferably because maybe if

47:07

you're getting here you're joining a new

47:09

company you don't know if you would like

47:10

it or not maybe you want to move back to

47:12

the US or something like that so you

47:13

don't want to invest all your money into

47:16

buying an apartment you need to rent so

47:18

getting the you know renting a house or

47:20

apartment market

47:21

easier and more accessible I think that

47:24

is one of the most important things and

47:26

then I think you need to think about at

47:28

least from a holistic perspective how

47:31

you know it's really from a tax

47:34

perspective options how they can own a

47:36

share in the company because the joining

47:37

a company that cannot give them as high

47:39

salary as they would have had if they

47:41

were working for a more mature company

47:43

so you need to give them shares in the

47:45

company or something

47:47

and then you need to find a way of doing

47:49

that without penalizing it too much so

47:52

it's not worthwhile yeah and I that's

47:54

that's basically sharing the risk and

47:56

the other side with your stuff yes there

47:59

needs to be a way to do that I agree

48:00

that's one of the most important things

48:02

but I don't have any answers I mean it's

48:04

hard with even with the housing I mean

48:06

one way of solving it would be to just

48:09

do market rent just right off the bat

48:11

but that would also you know gentrify

48:14

the entire there will it be like in in

48:16

Silicon Valley for example where all the

48:18

rich people bought everything and so so

48:21

that's that's difficult equation there

48:23

of course but building new places to say

48:25

I guess it would be key and an

48:27

infrastructure of course is key and yeah

48:31

there are some serious problems to do

48:32

that we can't solve them all but I think

48:34

I do think that just looking at how

48:36

people can share the risk and and the

48:38

upside in a way that's not completely

48:41

eaten up by by taxes a key factor and I

48:46

know a lot of I mean there have been a

48:47

lot of people out in the meet us the

48:48

best American skew comes to mind talking

48:51

about that how that needs to be solved

48:52

and and you know I hope we can

48:56

contribute to to that being something

48:59

that people don't look at as rich people

49:01

trying to enrich themselves but rather a

49:02

way of making Sweden a better country

49:05

yeah that would be great if you could do

49:06

that

49:07

and I think this thing with having a

49:11

clear purpose that you're focusing on

49:13

that as a as a mantra I think that's

49:16

really a super key to success because it

49:19

gives a North Star something to optimize

49:22

and focus on and if that is very clear

49:25

it's also much easier to find the route

49:28

like if you think you're going to just a

49:31

part of the world compared to say I'm

49:33

going to Rome it's much easier to get

49:36

there if you're saying I'm going to Rome

49:38

I think I think that's also very good

49:41

it's extremely good advice do you have

49:45

any investments outside of Sweden we

49:47

have a few most of what we do are nordic

49:50

investments are not only Sweden we also

49:52

do a lot in Norway where people

49:53

accompany in Finland etc we the largest

49:57

company we have outside of Sweden is a

49:59

company

50:00

in the Netherlands it's actually quite

50:02

interesting because that is that might

50:04

be the portfolio company we have that

50:06

potentially if they succeed could do the

50:08

most impact the company's called logics

50:11

and and what they are doing is actually

50:15

providing transparency and giving an

50:18

overview equality within healthcare so

50:21

so if you take a step back and you look

50:22

at the problem we have in the world

50:24

because I said that we should always

50:25

start there right so you can see that we

50:28

are getting older than Intel so we're

50:29

getting sicker we're also going from

50:32

seven to ten billion people and tailing

50:34

that you know there's there's a massive

50:36

amount of people like needing health

50:37

care and health care costs are you know

50:41

just going crazy at the moment because

50:42

we're getting more people it gets more

50:44

expensive people are living longer so

50:46

help your cause it's a huge issue

50:48

because it's just exponentially growing

50:50

and and how should we fund us so what

50:53

logics is doing and there's a the

50:56

Swedish part of logic is called Eva bar

50:57

so what they are doing is actually they

51:00

can provide their customers with full

51:02

transparency on costs their customers

51:04

are hospitals government's insurance

51:07

companies and and the reason why this is

51:10

so key is that the estimate is that we

51:13

spend 30 percent of all the capital we

51:15

pour into healthcare as a system is

51:17

waste it's inefficient you know doctors

51:21

standing waiting people not being

51:24

discharged and can leave and hence they

51:27

are taking up bed in the hospital etc so

51:30

just inefficiency drives thought it was

51:32

under the cost as we put in to the

51:34

system it's just waste for us that

51:36

number is estimated to be somewhere

51:38

between 40 and 50 percent so if you can

51:41

figure this out you would get the cost

51:43

down significantly and you can use that

51:44

money for better stuff in the system

51:46

right so part of it is cost and the

51:50

other part what they are doing is also

51:52

getting same transparency on quality

51:54

what is the outcome of health care so if

51:57

you can if you could combine those which

52:00

this company is trying to do well from

52:01

the cost side and and the quality side

52:03

you might be able to find a sort of holy

52:06

grail within health care to get better

52:09

and higher quality health care for lower

52:11

cost

52:12

that's an amazing it for Sweden

52:14

somehow there was a story that ate its

52:18

way into Swedish politics that was said

52:22

that the problem with Swedish healthcare

52:25

is that people are making money doing

52:27

health care so we need to stop people

52:29

from making money and that's to me it's

52:33

such a misguided it's just not true

52:35

but this type of company could solve

52:39

that this type of company could show

52:41

lack and white that this is the quality

52:43

when doing health care this way and this

52:45

is the quality we didn't do health care

52:47

that way and that's what we need we

52:50

don't need people to say well let's the

52:52

government should do it because you know

52:55

we do it more efficiently we know it's

52:57

from just experience in most areas that

53:00

government is not the most efficient

53:03

actor in doing almost anything and if

53:06

they should they should at least have

53:08

full transparency and knowing what

53:09

they're doing and the problem is today

53:10

that no one has full transparency of

53:12

cost no one has full transparency of

53:14

quality because there's a lot of

53:16

different pieces out there you have

53:18

public hospitals and you have private

53:20

health care givers and no one has full

53:22

transparency today so if you can provide

53:24

that and give that you can do something

53:25

about both cost and quality and this is

53:27

what logics Andy Barr is trying to do

53:29

yeah and I mean to give some credit to

53:31

the people that believe that that

53:33

profits are the devil in health care to

53:36

give some credit to them nobody really

53:38

knows this is is this like a bad love of

53:42

ideas but that company that you're

53:45

talking about now could actually prove

53:47

one way or the other what is actually

53:49

true yeah and you you can you can then

53:51

see them I'm sure there are you know

53:53

you're responsible caregivers out there

53:56

that don't provide great care and then

53:58

you know take too much you know charge

54:01

too much I'm sure there are but that

54:03

this company can show that so if you

54:04

look at that you know then just don't

54:06

say an appendage patients they're

54:07

they're bad companies in every industry

54:09

of course I mean but but yeah this I

54:12

can't wait for this product to come to

54:14

Sweden it is here it is here yeah yeah

54:17

that's called even bar oh so we just

54:19

need to grow them big enough yeah we

54:21

need to bring that on yeah yeah so so

54:23

the and the CEO we

54:27

the company who's also father found weed

54:28

so we Ivar was a Swedish investment a

54:31

smaller company sort of earlier stage

54:33

that we merged into a bigger today they

54:37

are the European leader within this

54:38

field together with a big company in

54:41

Netherlands that's why the companies in

54:43

Netherlands today so the founder Sweden

54:47

CEO is Eunice woollen he would probably

54:50

love to come here and talk about this

54:51

because he is really passionate about it

54:53

speaking about purpose-driven people and

54:56

and the sort of CEO for the group that

55:00

was part of starting that part of the

55:02

business is Philippe John he's also a

55:04

really impressive CEO you you should

55:07

bring both of them here that would be an

55:08

interesting discussion I would love that

55:10

I I grew up my dad started one of the

55:12

first private when they privatized it in

55:15

the health care in Sweden with the that

55:17

reform my dad was one of the first

55:19

entrepreneurs starting his own practice

55:21

but so I grew up with it and I I'm so

55:25

passionate about that area so I would

55:27

love to have him on I'll set it up okay

55:29

great okay and I think I think this is

55:31

also it's it's like the level of

55:33

consciousness because I think that a lot

55:36

of entrepreneurs historically has also

55:39

if if people do bad it creates a

55:43

reputation and brand that entrepreneurs

55:46

in the healthcare industry that they are

55:50

not it's not good to make money because

55:52

then the quality goes down and I think

55:55

that the entrepreneurs and the big

55:58

companies the privately owned companies

56:00

they have to make sure that they're

56:03

doing good as well because because if

56:06

they don't do good the the politicians

56:09

and the people that are setting the

56:11

rules they will see that this isn't

56:13

working and they will create this type

56:15

of environment that we have in Sweden

56:17

which is good that it's free healthcare

56:19

it's bad that it's not possible to get

56:23

the level of innovation that is possible

56:26

I think we all we all want the same

56:29

thing we want the best possible care for

56:31

the given amount of tax amount money but

56:34

we also want the development and the

56:36

innovation in the field because that's

56:37

absolutely necessary as you say other

56:40

i swill we're just facing a wall of

56:44

costs yeah coming in Johan you teach me

56:49

so many things

56:49

thank you and one of the things that you

56:51

have taught me is that when you are

56:54

going to meet a company and pitch

56:56

something to them you look through their

56:59

annual report and you look for their key

57:02

initiatives that they want to solve and

57:05

then you start your pitch in that end

57:09

and I think that's very good advice

57:10

because then you know that you are

57:12

trying to solve some of this companies

57:14

you know key problems and your approach

57:17

to investment is the same thing but

57:20

you're looking at the the annual report

57:23

of the globe yep

57:25

no but you can't look at these 17 global

57:28

goals and just see the business plan for

57:30

the world and you start there rather

57:32

than in a you know I only need a module

57:35

company yeah and I got like in this

57:37

session I got so excited because for our

57:41

company for next date which is the

57:43

company that I own and run which is a

57:47

b2b marketing company we work with

57:50

strategy for our clients and like I

57:53

haven't put in big enough the 17

57:57

sustainability that the goals that needs

58:00

to be in the core of every

58:04

company that we work with which one's of

58:07

these are we part of a solution of

58:09

because it's also it's because of their

58:13

own sustainability as well

58:14

because if they don't do it they will be

58:17

as us everything else in the

58:19

world yes but I think that just looking

58:22

at these because my instinct would be

58:24

okay so we're bringing the global goals

58:26

and that's part of the CSR angle you

58:28

know the little cherry on top and just I

58:31

think the biggest takeaway from this

58:34

episode will be like okay it's not the

58:36

cherry on top it's not something that

58:38

you add on us to see us are moved to

58:40

boost your brand a little bit in a green

58:42

direction or something like that is

58:43

actually where you look for your

58:45

business idea defined okay so all

58:47

business is about finding a problem and

58:49

solving it and that's what you are

58:52

proposing here and I think that's a soup

58:54

inspiration like for every entrepreneur

58:56

out there to do that

58:57

good I think so as well we have we took

59:03

with us whenever we have a great advisor

59:05

we need to talk about us to get some

59:07

advice yes what can advice can you give

59:10

to us in this initiative to supercharge

59:13

entrepreneurship in Scandinavia and the

59:15

rest of first of all I think is a great

59:18

initiative otherwise I wouldn't be here

59:19

as well does that I'm fairly selective

59:22

but but I think it's great and I think

59:25

that you connected to saving the world

59:27

which is basically all of the 17 global

59:30

goals right so I think everything starts

59:32

great there and then I I just assumed

59:35

that you talk to people that are

59:37

listening to the show that you so that

59:39

you can improve continuously just

59:41

assuming that you're not doing so how

59:42

are we and and I think that you you have

59:45

a lot of people here which knows a lot

59:47

of people and have a good you know Intel

59:50

Austin for a list of other people they

59:52

should interview and while they should

59:54

focus on so I'll send you a list of five

59:56

or seven people that you should contact

59:58

off this and and and try to you know

60:00

build onto that we'd love that

60:02

good thank you so much sure and thank

60:05

you so much for coming thank you for

60:07

much for having me and undoubting we

60:09

speak about the thing I love the most

60:11

which is zoom in our companies thank you

60:15

thank you for listening to what's in the

60:17

water

60:18

our ultimate goal with this podcast is

60:21

the supercharged entrepreneurship in

60:23

Scandinavia in the world to create the

60:26

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60:28

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61:13

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61:15

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61:20

[Music]